John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
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Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#2> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties.
I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#3> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
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Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#4[deleted]
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#5> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
It's impossible to look at 46 years ago without seeing through the lens of four years ago, so I imagine people's opinions on Raines closely mirror their opinions on Snowden.
Which is fine by me, as I think both Raines and Snowden should be viewed closer to the "heroic whistle-blowers" end of the spectrum. But I suspect there are many who see both Raines and Snowden as traitors.
I'd be very interested in hearing the reasoning of someone who had different opinions on the two.
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#6> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
It's impossible to look at 46 years ago without seeing through the lens of four years ago, so I imagine people's opinions on Raines closely mirror their opinions on Snowden. Which is fine by me, as I think both Raines and Snowden should be viewed closer to the "heroic whistle-blowers" end of the spectrum. But I suspect there are many who see both Raines and Snowden as traitors. I'd be very interested in hearing the r…
It seems likely that anyone with split opinions would support Raines over Snowden; the obvious difference between the two cases is J. Edgar Hoover.
Snowden exposed a mass surveillance program, some of which appears to have been illegal. Raines did likewise, but also exposed a serious campaign of harassment against activists - one prosecuted by an FBI director who was apparently viewed as beyond the control of even the President.
I think some of the more technocratic types I know might say Snowden's leaks were about "agencies doing what they should", while Raines' was a necessary reaction to an out-of-control administrator.
If there are people who support Snowden but oppose Raines, I'd be fascinated to hear what rationale that uses - nothing comes to mind.
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#7It's worth noting that the leader of the break in, William Davidon [1], was an Argonne researcher who invented the precursor to BFGS (though it took the community a long time to publish his quasi-Newton method).
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#8> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
> I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
I think the answer is "it depends". I mean, you could leak information that gets people killed but as long as you invent a reason the metaphorical whistle needed to be blown, you are automatically a hero?
There's responsible whistleblowing, irresponsible whistleblowing, and straight-up treason. Sometimes I feel like we pretend the second two never happen and it's always the first one happening.
Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's impossible to look at 46 years ago without seeing through the lens of four years ago, so I imagine people's opinions on Raines closely mirror their opinions on Snowden. Which is fine by me, as I think both Raines and Snowden should be viewed closer to the "heroic whistle-blowers" end of the spectrum. But I suspect there are many who see both Raines and Snowden as traitors. I'd be very interested in hearing the r…
It seems likely that anyone with split opinions would support Raines over Snowden; the obvious difference between the two cases is J. Edgar Hoover. Snowden exposed a mass surveillance program, some of which appears to have been illegal. Raines did likewise, but also exposed a serious campaign of harassment against activists - one prosecuted by an FBI director who was apparently viewed as beyond the control of even th…
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Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies
#10> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?
It's impossible to look at 46 years ago without seeing through the lens of four years ago, so I imagine people's opinions on Raines closely mirror their opinions on Snowden. Which is fine by me, as I think both Raines and Snowden should be viewed closer to the "heroic whistle-blowers" end of the spectrum. But I suspect there are many who see both Raines and Snowden as traitors. I'd be very interested in hearing the r…
How do Snowden and Greenwald feel about having collaborated with Wikileaks given that they seem totally discredited by the revelation of their correspondence w/the Trump campaign?