Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 77 posts

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#31

Post by mmjaa »

opportune wrote: post #26
mmjaa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Assange was "compromised" by his inability to deal, personally, with the disgusting things Wikileaks has revealed about America. That, to me, is the most significant aspect of recent events: what started out great, has been internalised and metastasised into rage, angst and frustration at the horrendous machinations of the US government and its partners in building the new world order ..

I think you're right to an extent, but it doesn't explain how he aligned himself with one major US political party at the expense of another. For example it's widely hypothesized (and I concede this isn't substantial evidence) that Wikileaks could have released the Republican leaks too if they had wanted. I suppose he could have been hoping that a friendly presidential administration would get the US off his back, bu…

If one takes the view that Clinton and her cabal have engaged in heinous crimes for the last 30 years, then its a simple matter of the lesser evil. I really think he feels this way, as do many supporters of Wikileaks.

Plus, there's the whole "drain the swamp" thing that Trump promised, as an outsider, to execute. So I don't think its so much that Wikileaks decided to become pro-R, just that Trump very definitely had/has the opportunity to shake up the incumbents and alter the status quo, and this is also in alignment with Wikileaks' stated goals. So, there's that.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#32

Post by ygaf »

wyldfire wrote: post #15
timthelion wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that wikileaks did work directly with Trump Jr. to coordinate pro Trump leaks and campaigning [1]. Whether wikileaks was actually pro-Trump, or merely playing the part with the hope of developing a relationship which could lead to their acquisition of confidential information is unclear. "“Hey Don. We have an unusual idea,” WikiLeaks wrote on October 21, 2016. “Leak us one or more of your father’s tax retu…

You left out the part that I find horrifying: > It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It…

Deleted my post, which doesn't really refute the parent, I was just tilted by his shameless soapboxing. You do wonder how a thread on John Raines becomes one on Wikileaks.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#33

Post by obmelvin »

gtcode wrote: post #21
opportune wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By damage do you mean indirect political damage stemming from the controversy surrounding Snowden, or direct damage to the US intel programs caused by the actual information that he released? To my knowledge there wasn't really any direct damage at all as a result of Snowden's actions (which is not always true of leakers, see Chelsea Manning)

-

Personally, I don't doubt that Snowden caused some damage to the IC community. However, I would argue that the benefit to people who would like to live in a modern democracy far outweighs that damage.

I truly believe that the only reason more people are not be outraged by the IC's actions is by not understanding their capabilities. I'm a graduate student in CS and am still amazed at what they could do. There's no way in heck I expect my mother to appreciate the gravity of the danger of such a surveillance state because she can't even begin to comprehend what is possible.

EDIT: why delete your comments? You should stand by your views even if others disagree. Well, not to the point of being stubborn, but in this case I don't get it.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#34

Post by opportune »

obmelvin wrote: post #33
gtcode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

Personally, I don't doubt that Snowden caused some damage to the IC community. However, I would argue that the benefit to people who would like to live in a modern democracy far outweighs that damage. I truly believe that the only reason more people are not be outraged by the IC's actions is by not understanding their capabilities. I'm a graduate student in CS and am still amazed at what they could do. There's no way…

Confused as to the deletion of comments as well. The parent didn't seem to be alluding to any confidential or classified information specifically enough for it to matter, merely its existence, which is obviously already public knowledge

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#35

Post by [deleted] »

obmelvin wrote: post #33
gtcode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

Personally, I don't doubt that Snowden caused some damage to the IC community. However, I would argue that the benefit to people who would like to live in a modern democracy far outweighs that damage. I truly believe that the only reason more people are not be outraged by the IC's actions is by not understanding their capabilities. I'm a graduate student in CS and am still amazed at what they could do. There's no way…

[deleted]

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#36

Post by Bartweiss »

obmelvin wrote: post #33
gtcode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

Personally, I don't doubt that Snowden caused some damage to the IC community. However, I would argue that the benefit to people who would like to live in a modern democracy far outweighs that damage. I truly believe that the only reason more people are not be outraged by the IC's actions is by not understanding their capabilities. I'm a graduate student in CS and am still amazed at what they could do. There's no way…

Since it's gone now, I'll toss in context for those confused: there was yet another comment descending from this one that was also deleted.

It too advanced a weird suggestion that the Hi Capacity makerspace was somehow deeply tied into politics and the intelligence community, and was disrupted by Snowden. (And, of course, offered no support for that claim.)

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#37

Post by Bartweiss »

wyldfire wrote: post #10
pwinnski wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible to look at 46 years ago without seeing through the lens of four years ago, so I imagine people's opinions on Raines closely mirror their opinions on Snowden. Which is fine by me, as I think both Raines and Snowden should be viewed closer to the "heroic whistle-blowers" end of the spectrum. But I suspect there are many who see both Raines and Snowden as traitors. I'd be very interested in hearing the r…

How do Snowden and Greenwald feel about having collaborated with Wikileaks given that they seem totally discredited by the revelation of their correspondence w/the Trump campaign?

How did Snowden work with Wikileaks? (That's an honest question.)

As I understood matters, he avoided leaking to WL specifically because he didn't trust their approach to disclosure. He's had some vague contact Wikileaks since, but those connections (e.g. introduced on telepresence by Appelbaum) didn't seem to involve any kind of actual collaboration.

Is there some kind of deeper collaboration between the two? If not, why would Snowden and Greenwald have any more reason to feel connected to Wikileaks than any other high-profile privacy advocate?

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#38

Post by [deleted] »

obmelvin wrote: post #33
gtcode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

Personally, I don't doubt that Snowden caused some damage to the IC community. However, I would argue that the benefit to people who would like to live in a modern democracy far outweighs that damage. I truly believe that the only reason more people are not be outraged by the IC's actions is by not understanding their capabilities. I'm a graduate student in CS and am still amazed at what they could do. There's no way…

[deleted]

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#39

Post by paulrd »

wyldfire wrote: post #15
timthelion wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that wikileaks did work directly with Trump Jr. to coordinate pro Trump leaks and campaigning [1]. Whether wikileaks was actually pro-Trump, or merely playing the part with the hope of developing a relationship which could lead to their acquisition of confidential information is unclear. "“Hey Don. We have an unusual idea,” WikiLeaks wrote on October 21, 2016. “Leak us one or more of your father’s tax retu…

You left out the part that I find horrifying: > It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It…

Actually that quote is incorrect. It has been widely misquoted by the main stream media for their own propagandistic reasons.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-atlantic-commits-malp...

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/930237935680618496

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#40

Post by underbluewaters »

wyldfire wrote: post #15
timthelion wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that wikileaks did work directly with Trump Jr. to coordinate pro Trump leaks and campaigning [1]. Whether wikileaks was actually pro-Trump, or merely playing the part with the hope of developing a relationship which could lead to their acquisition of confidential information is unclear. "“Hey Don. We have an unusual idea,” WikiLeaks wrote on October 21, 2016. “Leak us one or more of your father’s tax retu…

You left out the part that I find horrifying: > It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It…

Those DM's weren't all that discrediting. I read them as Wikileaks trying to extract data from a source (Jr), which takes some convincing. Journalists asking "Hey give us Trump Sr's tax returns so we can dig for controversy" isn't going to yield results.
Post reply on HN