Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last? • Hacker News Board

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#91

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

It's probably an overzealous enforcement of the Hacker News Guidelines[1], probably the portion that says "Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say."

With that said, I do feel like it is incredibly relevant to this post. From what I could tell, it's at least not a grossly inaccurate claim[2] and could partially explain the increase in lower class wages.

edit: to those downvoting me, can you please explain why? What did I say that was inaccurate?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[2] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/...

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#92

Post by margorczynski » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #15

margorczynski wrote: post #5

Does every paragraph needs to rephrase that it isn't thanks to Trump? Maybe I'm wrong but lately it seems every US media outlet needs to mention him this way or another in every topic possible (positive or negative light)

I think you may be underestimating the importance of this article to US politics. One of the biggest issues in the 2016 election was stagnating blue-collar wages - it was one of Trump's main platforms, and one of the main factors that made him President. If the economy continues to do well across all income levels, regardless of why, and regardless of how unpopular Trump remains, there is a good chance we will see a…

That I understand but in the article there's a clear anti-Trump agenda and it's just I had a higher opinion about the Economist than them pushing their agenda in an article.

It's basically: "The economy is getting better (but not thanks to Trump) and there are more jobs (still not thanks to Trump). There has been an increase in wages (you might think it's thanks to Trump, but it is not)..."

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#93

Post by mtone » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

foldor wrote: post #61

neves wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer my software developers with a sharp mind than sleepy zumbis that are just physically present.

I think it's more about the attitude of not being prepared. Someone who is prepared will go to bed early enough to allow them to show up on time without being exhausted.

That's just favoring the early birds. Go look at statistics on lack of sleep, and consider the massive health, productivity and creativity implications. Surely, you will not assert that a third of the population lack sleep because of attitude or responsibility issues?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#94

Post by bluedino » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #17

I work at a medium-sized software company. We've had similar problems with younger employees. Guys literally posting in company-wide Slack channels that they're "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Can you even imagine somebody saying that to their boss in some black-and-white movie from the 1940s? "Hey, how about instead of coming in later you hit the bricks and never come back?" The culture ha…

>> "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later."

Most clients don't want to deal with that kind of behavior.

"It's been 3 hours, why is the site still down?"

"The developer isn't in yet to fix it."

Being reliable and showing up to work on time is a job skill as much as good communication, being a hard worker, etc

I realize that you should be flexible with workers' hours but people also need to realize coverage is needed.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#95

Post by rainbowmverse » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

It's almost as if extended poverty has ruined people's ability to function in a job market that wasn't there for them sooner. Poverty is called a trap for a reason. It's a self-reinforcing cycle as much as it's an income bracket.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#96

Post by toyg » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

alextheparrot wrote: post #52

bdamm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now grab a 3ft section of copper tubing, cut it to length with your pipe cutter, bend it with your copper bending tool, and flare it with your flare clamp... what, you don't have any of those? Wellll.."

Great! There’s an opportunity for same day rental delivery here too

And in the end you'll have spent more than you would have with a regular plumber, you'll have a bunch of tools you won't need for another 10 years, and the job will look terrible.

Source: had to retile a bit of a floor, too small to interest a real tiler. Guess how it looks now?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#97

Post by CJefferson » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #17

I work at a medium-sized software company. We've had similar problems with younger employees. Guys literally posting in company-wide Slack channels that they're "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Can you even imagine somebody saying that to their boss in some black-and-white movie from the 1940s? "Hey, how about instead of coming in later you hit the bricks and never come back?" The culture ha…

I'm happy to be at work at 9am on the dot, if my boss is happy for me to leave at 5pm on the dot, and not read any email or slack until 9am next morning. In my experience it is basically impossible in modern tech jobs to do that.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#98

Post by smallnamespace » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

Y7ZCQtNo39 wrote: post #76

toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So don't give drug tests? While I agree that drug tests are a scam as a white collar worker, I do think they're necessary from a liability perspective if you're in construction, manufacturing, or driving a company vehicle. I fully support the use of recreational drugs on someone's own time, but you have to weed out (forgive the pun) those who are under the influence when loss of life or limb is a risk.

I imagine that there is probably an issue with these workers making half of what software engineers make, but with higher expectation of no drug use. I'd imagine recreational drug use is even greater in lower-waged workers. Culturally, recreational drug use isn't that big of a deal, at least to millennials. You can completely be responsible enough to enjoy some cannabis on personal time, while also doing your 40 hour…

> You can completely be responsible enough to enjoy some cannabis on personal time, while also doing your 40 hours productively.

The problem is one of information from the POV of the employer: they are ultimately responsible for what the worker does on the job.

Even if P(no problem | drug use) = 0.99, the amount of negligent liability they will incur if an accident does occur, the person was intoxicated, and the employer could have checked for drugs, but didn't, is probably so high that they can't take that route.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#99

Post by snarf21 » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

hiram112 wrote: post #57

danielvf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably none [edit: in manufacturing]. Most illegal immigrants don’t work manufacturing. The three most common jobs for illegals around here are construction, yardcare, and building cleaning via nested subcontractors. Manufactures have hard assets they could loose. Sketchy subcontractors can just disappear and rename. The growth is from the demand side - people are buying more right now.

Did you even read the article: >In some industries the labour shortage seems acute. Now is not a good time for Americans to remodel their bathrooms: tile and terrazzo contractors earn 11% more per hour than a year ago (and fully one-third more than in 2014). This is exactly the type of jobs that have been flooded by immigrants from Latin America - both illegal and legal - for decades. I speak Spanish and often talk w…

You are right but there are other factors too. We've been pushing mediocre students through colleges at an exorbitant price when 30 years ago a lot of these people would have gone into the trades. Supply and demand plays into it domestically too. I agree that immigrants are filling the gap right now. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#100

Post by hiram112 » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #4

ocschwar wrote: post #2

Plumbers can't telecommute.

I imagine there's an opportunity for a startup that let's someone who wants to do a simple job themselves Facetime with a plumber to talk them through the work. No idea if there's any profit in it though.

I tried to fix numerous issues with my car and in my apartment by following very clear and detailed YouTube videos.

Unfortunately, it's the little things that usually push me to give up and hire a pro - wrong tools, don't know the tricks to get a tight screw loose, etc.

It's not dissimilar to how many non-technical PHBs watch developers typing away, and figure they can just get a random worker for half-price to copy the same code from a book or website. In reality, it's not the actual code - many times which can just be copied - that makes a good developer worthwhile, it's the years of experience to know what to do when something goes wrong.