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Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

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Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#71

Post by izendejas »

abecedarius wrote: post #41
pgbovine wrote: post #24

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

Someone makes that point every single time, more like. It strikes me as a rationalization: would you design schools the way they are, to teach grit? They seem better adapted to produce submission: showing up for the job every day and doing what you're told. This is related to the discipline to finish your own projects, but like with a sign change along important dimensions.

I beg to differ. People that develop a grit are the ones telling those that didn't what to do. If they couldn't get the work done, how else do you expect them to lead? You can't define a submissive person as simply as above. A submissive person is also one that didn't have the grit to develop his communication skills, his people skills, his critical thinking skills, and his creativity, etc.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#72

Post by etherael »

izendejas wrote: post #68
etherael wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing grit and discipline in the pursuit of the asinine is as just as harmful if not more, than not developing grit and discipline in the pursuit of the sublime. Much of what passes for education much more closely matches the former than the latter. - A 9th grade dropout.

An education is what you make of it. Those of us that "survived" the pursuit of the "asinine" found a way to take advantage of the many resources a schooling system offers to compensate for any deficiencies and learned a great deal. Those resources are your fellow classmates, your teachers (imagine that), clubs, sports, and I can go on and on.

Not to engage in the no true scotsman fallacy, but then by definition, your subjective experience was not the pursuit of the asinine. That doesn't mean other people's subjective experiences do not fall squarely within that realm.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#73

Post by whimsy »

tome wrote: post #67
loewenskind wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that was in the first Sherlock Holmes book if I'm not mistaken. Sherlock let it slip that he still thought the sun revolved around the earth. Watson was outraged at such an outdated belief but Sherlock pointed out how it had no bearing on what he did and therefor wasn't worth keeping up with. I too was partial to this because I've always worked under a similar assumption (limited space in your head for all the t…

He also said he would try hard to forget that the earth went round the sun, so that he could reuse the memory space for other things.

If he'd spent some space on neurology, he'd know that forgetting things doesn't create space for new memories.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#75

Post by izendejas »

chrischen wrote: post #69

I never let schooling get in the way of my education, but I'm pretty sure that's at least partially responsible for me getting rejected from all the colleges I even remotely wanted to attend. So I can't say the system is really in place to support people who do their own thing. It's not a realistic option for most people to start deviating from schooling. I mean you've got to be really above average to be able to qui…

I went to a very competitive public school. They looked at more than just my grades. I'm sorry that you got rejected, but quite frankly, if you didn't get good grades, it's hard for a school to vouch for you mastering basic skills you'll need at the next level. If however, those grades are a reflection of one of many problems of obstacles you may have faced, then that's where your personal statement comes in. If you decided to do your own thing, then as someone reading applications, I'd rather give your spot to someone else and wish you well in that sense.

Whether you decide to go to college or drop out is a decision I hope everyone can live with either way. At the end of the day, yes, find what you love and do what you love. Schooling is a great, great way to learn how to do many things, meet many great people, etc. It's not the only path, but it's an easier path for most people because you have the threads of people who came before you and would know how to guide you--assuming you're on the lookout.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#76

Post by ananthrk »

vimalg2 wrote: post #32

This speech shook me rudely awake , reminded me of my post-college long-term life goal(one that makes a contribution to human wealth). My goal is to build a excellent institution of learning, to train the dreamers and doers of tomorrow(not mutually exclusive). This place would rival the IITs in depth of knowledge imparted but would strive to create more well-rounded individuals who would be masters of their own desti…

Can you please elaborate why you want to focus on the professional under-graduate courses? I share the same anguish and thinking on it led me to believe that the process should start much early (High School and Higher-Secondary). This provides an opportunity to help the kids to work their ways independently (against the social pressure) and figure out what they want to do when it comes to picking an under-graduate course. Given that the current generation has seen much more financial independence than the previous ones (and possibly sharing the same anguish), I think this is the right time to drive the schooling system in the right direction.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#77

Post by dschobel »

smiler wrote: post #74

To write such an eloquent and thought provoking piece as this, her education must have taught her something more than just memorisation and facts.

As her brain does not cease to function when she leaves school grounds, there is no reason to believe she did not gain her perspicacity elsewhere.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#78

Post by chrischen »

GVRV wrote: post #60
ars wrote: post #18

There's a lot of selection bias here - the majority (all?) of the readers of this site are far more intelligent than the majority. So all (most? many?) of us will probably agree with her (at least as regarding our own schooling). I know I do. But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she suggests, using our minds for creativity, and not rote work. There really is a difference in intelligence,…

I do not agree with her as well. Yes there are problems with the system. Yes, we can have a more liberal flexible system. But the system is designed for everyone. How many people in your class didn't know the capitals? How many couldn't write a formal letter? How many couldn't solve for x? I'm sure majority of HN thought this was trivial, but many others need this, and the only way they can learn it is through repeti…

You're right about needing basic understanding of everything. However schooling goes much further beyond that. You can take college level courses in high school. A college level education is supposed to summarize your professional capabilities. As you can see, the problem is that youth is swallowed up by an educational itinerary that leaves very little time for you to do what you want at a time you can make the most out of it.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#79

Post by physdida »

pgbovine wrote: post #24

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

I think it's the other way around.

Top pupils quit their post-school projects because they don't have teachers standing over them offering gold stars and punishments. They're so resigned to extrinsic motivation that it takes years to rediscover the creative, inner self: the guy that, without setting any goals, enjoyed lego and learning to speak english.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#80

Post by rdl »

moultano wrote: post #64
aik wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And why stop at 8-9k at a state university? She would be equally clueless and most likely surrounded by even greater confusion. This is the state of most people entering college in the United States. A person should not consider college unless they have some focus or understanding of why they are there. With focus, so much more will be achieved with what's given to them. How do you gain focus? First and fore…

In theory I agree with you, but in practice I don't. For most of the people I've seen delay college, they only life experience they gain in the meantime is in waiting tables. (Which they usually already had from jobs in highschool anyways.) The only positive effect I've seen is that people realize they don't want to work a shit job for the rest of their lives, and get some motivation for education. On the margin this…

Delaying college by going into the military for 2-4 years seems to work out pretty well. Some of the best students I've met have been on the GI Bill.

An approximation for non-military-inclined people would be spend a year or so traveling, and then learn some relatively straightforward but non-trivial skill (say, photography, or field service engineering for a certain kind of hardware), and then traveling around to do that job (even if you end up net losing money). It's cheaper than college, and generally better preparation for life. It then makes college itself much more valuable.

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