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Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

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Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#41

Post by abecedarius »

pgbovine wrote: post #24

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

Someone makes that point every single time, more like. It strikes me as a rationalization: would you design schools the way they are, to teach grit? They seem better adapted to produce submission: showing up for the job every day and doing what you're told. This is related to the discipline to finish your own projects, but like with a sign change along important dimensions.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#42

Post by brp22 »

WingForward wrote: post #25
megablast wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with her, well, sure a little. The fact is, like capitalism, the schooling system is the worst system, except for all the others. And for the majority, it is great for them. I think this is one of the areas where it is so easy to criticize, because of course there are problems, unless someone actually recommends a good alternative system, I just ignore them.

You're misquoting Churchill and objectively inaccurate. The USA version's of capitalism and schooling are not ideal for our culture or the world as a whole. There are plenty of alternatives.

...go on

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#43

Post by aik »

vimalg2 wrote: post #32

This speech shook me rudely awake , reminded me of my post-college long-term life goal(one that makes a contribution to human wealth). My goal is to build a excellent institution of learning, to train the dreamers and doers of tomorrow(not mutually exclusive). This place would rival the IITs in depth of knowledge imparted but would strive to create more well-rounded individuals who would be masters of their own desti…

Interesting. We share a passion. I exited a university with a computer science degree and finally then realized how many years I had wasted. In that moment I began to understand the many ways my mind had been brainwashed and muted. Public schools in the United States are in a sad place.

Luckily there are a lot of angry people and hence a lot of movements with good intents. Good luck to them all.

My primary passion is to improve all this as well.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#44

Post by moultano »

kloncks wrote: post #3

I would have loved to have the experience to not just hear her speech in person, but to see the reactions from everyone. The faces of her fellow students as well as teachers/parents.

At my highschool the valedictorian speech had to be approved by the principal in advance. I wonder if he ever would have let something like this by.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#45

Post by moultano »

vimalg2 wrote: post #32

This speech shook me rudely awake , reminded me of my post-college long-term life goal(one that makes a contribution to human wealth). My goal is to build a excellent institution of learning, to train the dreamers and doers of tomorrow(not mutually exclusive). This place would rival the IITs in depth of knowledge imparted but would strive to create more well-rounded individuals who would be masters of their own desti…

>Does anyone in America have the same thought, or are your institutions of higher-learning pretty much satisfactory?

Frankly, I think our colleges are pretty much great. We have enough supply that pretty much everyone can go, and the public universities are cheap enough that most can afford it with financial aid and a night job if necessary.

The education varies, but you don't often hear people say when they leave college that they were prevented from learning. Even mediocre schools often have an honors program that gets much better results.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#46

Post by kloncks »

moultano wrote: post #44
kloncks wrote: post #3

I would have loved to have the experience to not just hear her speech in person, but to see the reactions from everyone. The faces of her fellow students as well as teachers/parents.

At my highschool the valedictorian speech had to be approved by the principal in advance. I wonder if he ever would have let something like this by.

Same with my school. The only way something like this could have happened is if the valedictorian writes one speech for the principal to screen but delivers a totally different speech for the actual event.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#47

Post by loewenskind »

megablast wrote: post #20
ars wrote: post #18

There's a lot of selection bias here - the majority (all?) of the readers of this site are far more intelligent than the majority. So all (most? many?) of us will probably agree with her (at least as regarding our own schooling). I know I do. But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she suggests, using our minds for creativity, and not rote work. There really is a difference in intelligence,…

I don't agree with her, well, sure a little. The fact is, like capitalism, the schooling system is the worst system, except for all the others. And for the majority, it is great for them. I think this is one of the areas where it is so easy to criticize, because of course there are problems, unless someone actually recommends a good alternative system, I just ignore them.

Total nonsense. Lots of other countries have vastly better grade schools (pg mentions this in one of his essays). Do you think all the people in those countries just have a lot more potential than most Americans?

The worst thing about this ridiculous "America is the best!" attitude is that you can't fix anything if you think you've already got the best that can be done.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#48

Post by jacoblyles »

ars wrote: post #18

There's a lot of selection bias here - the majority (all?) of the readers of this site are far more intelligent than the majority. So all (most? many?) of us will probably agree with her (at least as regarding our own schooling). I know I do. But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she suggests, using our minds for creativity, and not rote work. There really is a difference in intelligence,…

It's almost like one-size-fits-all is a bad idea.

On that thought, I wonder why we get so much choice in so many services that we buy but so little in something that matters as much as education?

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#49

Post by loewenskind »

ars wrote: post #18

There's a lot of selection bias here - the majority (all?) of the readers of this site are far more intelligent than the majority. So all (most? many?) of us will probably agree with her (at least as regarding our own schooling). I know I do. But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she suggests, using our minds for creativity, and not rote work. There really is a difference in intelligence,…

>But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she suggests,

How do you know? Not everyone learns the same way. Personally I find it quite arrogant to assume that you or I are just born with more potential than those who don't end up as "smart". Environment has an enormous effect on learning as does the teaching itself. Lots and lots of students don't understand calculus. But a really talented teacher can make it clear to anyone.

Look at recent events (e.g. with the US health care debate) and it's clear that if the US education system isn't addressed soon it's going to be too late. We have to take a hard look at where and why it's broken. Not assuming it's "as good or better than everyone else's" and for the love of Pete don't accept Hitleresque "we're just the chosen ones and they're not" nonsense.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#50

Post by moultano »

tmsh wrote: post #26

Ah yes, I find myself wondering: how to explain to younglings that even more important than the realization that one needn't conform to the status quo (and indeed one might reject one's entire frame of reference) is that the truth -- rejecting only those things you can honestly, authoritatively reject -- is a much more sustainable approach, even though it takes longer and appears harder. But, within one's expanding l…

One thing I'm always struck by whenever this comes up is how much people underestimate our collective capacity for indolence. As much as I hated uninspired busywork in highschool, and did as little of it as possible, what did I do with the rest of my time? I sunk 70 hours into Final Fantasy VII.

Sure, maybe I would have been more productive if I hadn't spent 6 hours every day waiting my way through the day, but I don't really think so.

Most people do have an equilibrium level joy of learning that they discover when left to their own devices, but I don't think most schools stifle this. On the contrary, school just forces you to do more learning than most people naturally would, and feels like an imposition as a result.

I'd certainly have enjoyed being left to explore at my own pace, but frankly, I wouldn't know nearly as much.

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