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Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

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Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#81

Post by Jare »

rplnt wrote: post #79
rangibaby wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people interested, even when the only thing they're progressing towards is... the opportunity for more progression. If anyone wants to try this type of "game" give cookie clicker a try.

One more with the niche of this forum, and one that doesn't take that much time (depending on your take on the task), is Paperclips http://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/

To close the circle, this was recently released as a paid game ($1.99 or $2.99 not sure) on mobile.

This game works so well (within its scope) because of its ability to surprise you with the crazy narrative and convoluted mechanisms it brings in as you progress.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#82

Post by awjr »

I have a habit of playing a F2P game to understand how easy it is to advance. They really do understand how to get you hooked, and then put you up against players/AI where you either have to grind for the next 10 weeks or handover money, and even then I suspect you'd hit another wall every 10 or so levels. I usually end up uninstalling very quickly at this point.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#83

Post by Marazan »

jon_richards wrote: post #38
csours wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clash Royale brands their philosophy as pay-to-advance. You can upgrade faster with real money, but that doesn't mean you will win matches. At some point at the top I assume everyone is spending a lot of money, and is matched up with similar level cards. As a player it doesn't really bug me.

That is an interesting point, but I think most companies incentivise whales by putting them up against people who they can crush, whether it is deliberately (as in the case of activision's patent) or by having a matchmaking system that doesn't strictly separate people by their in-game power. Imagine a game where players only interact if they are the same level. If you can pay to gain levels, that doesn't necessarily…

Clash Royale is, much to my surprise, a game that heavily, heavily rewards skill over money bombs.

I've played against clear whale players - several levels higher than me, troops massively over leveled for the match making strata we were in - and they were uniformly terrible players who I beat easily.

Clash Royale is a really interesting game in many ways - it's Free-2-Play path is carefully calibrated to offer a perfect opportunity to pay them £10 on a "special offer" after you've been playing for 6 months to speed you over the grind hump at level 8 ish. That's the point where your in-game currency rewards can't quite match the amount of currency you have to spend upgrading your troops. Once you are over that hump though and get to the next arena level your in game currency rewards increase again relative to upgrade costs and you are back on another F2P coast.

Their non-special offer real-money shop though is absolutely appalling value for money. Anyone who ever buys gems from them at regular prices is crazy in the coconut.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#84

Post by feikname »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #45

I'm active in the clicker/idle game scene so I can give a bit of background: It isn't rare lately for people to come to https://www.reddit.com/r/incremental_games/ and discuss possible ways to monetise games. How to best implement microtransactions, opt-in ads, or even some talk lately about cripto mining. Then yesterday someone wrote a post about the 'unannoying way to monetise', which is to make the game paid. http…

Considering a decent NES game cost about $50 in 1987, how is $30 too steep for a game in 2017 that provides many hours of gameplay?

IMO, a game price shouldn't be about how many hours of gameplay it provides...

$30 for a mobile clicker game just seems too much to me. I don't think it holds so much value.

NES games were a lot harder to and took more time to produce (we're talking writing the game in assembly for a lot of them) and had less effective tools at producing content than we have today.

You also had to assembly the cartridge and transport it to the retails. Hardware was not as cheap as today (nor was transport I believe).

Compare that to your 2017 mobile game which can be distributed via internet (very cheap), produced at a high level language, and you can make in less than 2 weeks with less than 4 people.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#85

Post by dspillett »

rangibaby wrote: post #74
Deimorz wrote: post #61

I'm really surprised to see this from a company that makes, of all possible genres, clicker games . Clicker games usually have almost no actual gameplay, and pretty much only interest people because they exploit many of the same type of psychological tricks that free-to-play games use to keep players hooked. They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people i…

> They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people interested, even when the only thing they're progressing towards is... the opportunity for more progression. If anyone wants to try this type of "game" give cookie clicker a try.

Or the earlier Cow Clicker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Clicker

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#86

Post by lloeki »

rangibaby wrote: post #74
Deimorz wrote: post #61

I'm really surprised to see this from a company that makes, of all possible genres, clicker games . Clicker games usually have almost no actual gameplay, and pretty much only interest people because they exploit many of the same type of psychological tricks that free-to-play games use to keep players hooked. They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people i…

> They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people interested, even when the only thing they're progressing towards is... the opportunity for more progression. If anyone wants to try this type of "game" give cookie clicker a try.

https://clickclickclick.click/

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#87

Post by beaconstudios »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #68
colmvp wrote: post #27

I hope (though I'm not truly that optimistic) in a decade that the trend of F2P will have passed. I find them extremely parasitic, exploiting human behavior. I also hate the term free-to-play, because it purposefully hides the fact that for many games, you either need to grind a lot to acquire content/in-game currency or have to spend a lot.

I think that there is a big gap between predatory mobile style F2P and other F2P games. I like the F2P games. In the past, you had to spend money to have something to play and the game would last you for a short while. Nowadays, if you are into competitive gameplay, you can just install League of Legends, DOTA2, TF2, Paladins, Starcraft 2 and lots of MMOs and play for years without paying anything. In most of these g…

I think one of the main reasons F2Ps have become so prominent is that players want something for nothing - sure, you get all these games for free (but then, most players could easily afford $40 for a game they'll spend hours on) but then your weighted cost of development will get offloaded onto either some rich person with too much time on their hands (ethically fine) or someone with chronic gaming addiction or depression who spends all their money on microtransactions (ethically not fine). I'd much rather live in a world where people were just more happy to pay for things they consume - we'd have a lot less exploitative business practices if this were the case.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#88

Post by noncoml »

Deimorz wrote: post #61

I'm really surprised to see this from a company that makes, of all possible genres, clicker games . Clicker games usually have almost no actual gameplay, and pretty much only interest people because they exploit many of the same type of psychological tricks that free-to-play games use to keep players hooked. They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people i…

> They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people interested, even when the only thing they're progressing towards is... the opportunity for more progression

First time I heard about clicker heroes game was 2 hours ago, reading your reply. Guess why it took me 2 house to reply? That’s right, I’ve been clicking and clicking. It’s crazy how something so pointless can be so addictive.

I have to agree with you. I would definitely not pay $30 up front to play it, but once you get hooked, I can see how easy is for people to start pouring money into it.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#89

Post by Retric »

Deimorz wrote: post #61

I'm really surprised to see this from a company that makes, of all possible genres, clicker games . Clicker games usually have almost no actual gameplay, and pretty much only interest people because they exploit many of the same type of psychological tricks that free-to-play games use to keep players hooked. They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people i…

Clicker heroes does take actual strategy to progress as you need to do cost benefit trade offs in how you spend resources. Gold, then hero souls, then log(hero souls sacrificed). Add to that when you reset the world, and how you reset it to gain hero souls or sacrificed hero souls.

That said, whenever optimal play is found using a spreadsheet it's not really interactive gameplay.

Re: Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

#90

Post by chii »

noncoml wrote: post #88
Deimorz wrote: post #61

I'm really surprised to see this from a company that makes, of all possible genres, clicker games . Clicker games usually have almost no actual gameplay, and pretty much only interest people because they exploit many of the same type of psychological tricks that free-to-play games use to keep players hooked. They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people i…

> They're a great demonstration of how the illusion of progressing at something is all you need to keep people interested, even when the only thing they're progressing towards is... the opportunity for more progression First time I heard about clicker heroes game was 2 hours ago, reading your reply. Guess why it took me 2 house to reply? That’s right, I’ve been clicking and clicking. It’s crazy how something so point…

> pay $30 up front to play it

i'd rather pay upfront than be nickeled and dimed afterwards. Esp. if the production quality of the game is up to scratch (e.g., no unrecoverable bugs, good looking graphics/sound, and intuitive UI etc).

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