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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

81–90 of 319 posts

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#81
I was riding the NYC Subway a year or two ago, when my brother in law asked me if I noticed anything strange about it.

After thinking it through, I realized that I had ridden that exact same subway car in the past.

It was a recommissioned car from Toronto!

So they're obviously doing something to try and save money.

It really made me question my own city's transit system as well.

How could NYC make do with something that Toronto thought was worth getting rid of?

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#83
post #60

After reading that article, it’s hard not to have the angry reaction of “wow, those idiots!” Right!? But, really, we should look inward. For example, where was the New York Times when all of these bad leadership decisions were made? Were they publishing op-eds with clearheaded prognostications of gloom, and alternative solutions? And, what about the voters who elected these politicians? Most importantly, where do we…

Yes let’s blame the victims first. That’ll solve everything.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason it's bad that MTA is only paying interest is that the transportation world is changing. Autonomy, Uber/Lyft, and other technologies may mean that subways systems like the MTA is in a death spiral where fewer riders means less fare revenue and less ability to even meet interest payments. In places like Washington, DC it looks like the death spiral is well underway.

I guarantee no amount of self-driving cars, Uber, or any other car-related technology will make people stop taking the subway in New York. The car bridges and tunnels into and out of Manhattan are at full capacity all day long. It is vastly faster to take the subway in most normal cases.

I've often wondered though why companies like the MTA don't transform their networks into things like Elon Musk's boring company type network

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in London and Toronto care enough to pressure their leaders about this? In my experience it's hard to find people in the U.S. who even bother to pay attention to who has oversight when it comes to transportation (and not just transportation, this is true for a lot of local issues).

I promise you that New Yorkers care about this deeply. https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/the-human-cost-of-subway... Any survey of New Yorkers and government services will tell you how much this matters. The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is. Her…

The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is.

We could have voted to reform the constitution and then stayed engaged enough to pick independent delegates instead of the same old insiders catering to special interests. But we collectively let the insiders and special interests talk us out of our once in twenty years opportunity to fix this nightmare.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#86
post #80
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the same route miles, and are similarly old. Yet NYC’s system costs almost twice as much to run. There is one fundamental difference between the two systems and that is that the London Tube stops service overnight while the New York City Subway remains open 24/7/365. Having a nightly maintenance window of several hours in which they can do preventive ma…

MTA liberally shuts down service for hours/days at a time. I wouldn’t chalk it all up to not having enough time to do maintanence. It was 24/7 back when it was functioning more consistently as well.

Which is the exact type of things that leads to customer complaints. Customers have to be inconvenienced in order to do maintenance on the NYC Subway. In turn the bar to require maintenance will be higher than it is in London. The natural result of years of delayed maintenance is for the system to get worse and worse as time goes on.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#87
post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

One reason voters in the US trust their government far less to do a competent and honest job than voters in other rich countries is that their government actually is that much worse.

As for why, that's a much harder question...

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#88

I know this isn't a popular idea but any thoughts on why privatizing them is a bad idea? It works in Japan. There are at least 10 train/subway companies in Tokyo alone. JR, Tokyu, Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, Eidan, Seibu, Tobu, Toei, Keisei and they seem to be best in class by most measures.

On that same idea, I would love to see private buses replace the subway. There is a large van that takes 15-20 people from Queens to Chinatown that runs everyday 12 hours a day and it costs under $5. Would love to see similar systems for Queens -> Times Square or Brooklyn -> wall street.

Trains just have so much higher capacity than roads. A single lane of highway traffic can handle about 2,000 cars per hour, and that of a surface street probably more like 1,000 cars per hour, while a track of railway can handle 24-30 trains per hour. Trains themselves can carry 1000-1500 people (albeit not comfortably on the high-end), which means you're looking at 25k-45k people/hour/lane on a train. You can't compete with that by road unless you have tons of buses converging on a dedicated busway for a trunk commute (something like this happens in the Lincoln Tunnel).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I promise you that New Yorkers care about this deeply. https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/the-human-cost-of-subway... Any survey of New Yorkers and government services will tell you how much this matters. The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is. Her…

The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is. We could have voted to reform the constitution and then stayed engaged enough to pick independent delegates instead of the same old insiders catering to special interests. But we collectively let the insiders…

What opportunity are you referring to?

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is. We could have voted to reform the constitution and then stayed engaged enough to pick independent delegates instead of the same old insiders catering to special interests. But we collectively let the insiders…

What opportunity are you referring to?

There was a referendum to hold a constitutional convention which would be able to propose amendments to the state constitution.

For some reason I still don't quite understand, labor unions were viciously opposed to it, supposedly because they were afraid of losing their pensions.

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