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On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

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Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#221

Post by ABCLAW »

Oxitendwe wrote: post #189
CodeCube wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does living next to someone else destroy an ethnic identity? Does a chinese family moving into an italian neighborhood all of a sudden mean that no one can open an italian restaurant? If there is a German festival one weekend, does that mean they can't have a Scottish highland festival the next weekend in the same venue? Does a Russian family moving in next door mean that I have to start drinking Vodka instead of…

>Does a chinese family moving into an italian neighborhood all of a sudden mean that no one can open an italian restaurant? No. It does mean a lot of other things though, like a vastly increased chance of chinese/italian intermarriage for their descendants, which means their descendants will not share your ethnic identity - it will be destroyed. Whether you think that's a good or a bad thing is an entirely different…

So the actual issue here is that the 'pure' bloodline might be tainted? Oh boy. The cat is out of the bag.

If this was actually about 'culture', we'd have a different discussion here. Nothing prevents a chinese/italian family from making dumplings and home-curing some pancetta. If anything that seems like a pasta/noodle dream-team of family. The cultural elements that make up an ethnic identity are remixed over time, and the ones that work tend to stick around.

Is there some creative destruction that happens there? Sure. But that's the norm, not the exception. Plenty of great stuff comes out of it. We wouldn't have chicago-style deep-dish if all the italians had to stay in Italy and use fior di latte and mozzarella di bufala exclusively.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#222

Post by stcredzero »

evanlivingston wrote: post #95
Veelox wrote: post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

I think you're missing a familiarity with a good chunk of the history of systematic racism in the U.S. There are reasons homogeneous communities form in the U.S. A few of those reasons have to do with city planning and legislation. City planning can be racist in nature and promote exclusionary communities. Redlining, while not typically state legislation, is a good example of practices that contributed to the formati…

There are reasons homogeneous communities form in the U.S.

According to Thomas Sowell, the norm when groups migrate, all throughout history, across cultures, all over the world, is for people to form highly homogeneous cultural communities. This seems to be borne out by history.

http://a.co/fDK6vrZ

When people think of those who are in and outside of their community there is latent racism.

There is always latent tribalism and prejudice. It's hard to fully know this, unless you are a complete outsider -- a minority of one. Also, unless one has had such an experience, it's hard to know how Sisyphean a task it is to directly tell another about it. In fact, I'll even come out and say it's inadvisable. In teaching, one comes to realize that there are some lessons which are best learned indirectly.

If we better understand and critique what a community is and how it forms I think it's possible.

One of the lessons of history, is that shared interests that cut across ethnic groups are the most effective means of overcoming prejudice. This is why I see many of the Postmodernist and Social Construction viewpoints as fundamentally harmful, because they take the seductive half-right position and often declare discourse between groups to be inherently impossible, and so go on to cut off the best means we have of remedying the situation. Competition, commerce, and all forms of engaged interaction are the best remedies. It's isolation of one form or another that makes things worse. It's isolation that makes a subgroup vulnerable to oppression and exploitation.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#223

Post by maxerickson »

colechristensen wrote: post #217
maxerickson wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be an interesting exercise to look at the census demographics for a county between 1900 and now. My home county had more black residents in 1920 than in 1990. It wasn't accidental in many smaller towns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town I do expect that the Great Depression also contributed with small minority communities moving to cities.

Which I am sure is true for some places, but not all. The census count for "black" in my county in 1920 and 1900 was 5. Not 5%, 5. It was 99.97% white. It's a fact that people seem to have quite some trouble with. Much of the midwest is nearly entirely white (and at that a pretty narrow subset of northern europeans) because only a small set of people had any interest in settling there.

What about 1990?

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#224

Post by ardit33 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #104
Veelox wrote: post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

As a Midwesterner, this is incredibly accurate. I personally don't like multiculturalism, and I don't know of many people in my area that do. In my opinion and experience, multiculturalism in society makes a sense of community very difficult if not impossible to create. Having standard methods of communication, standard social and moral norms, and standard goals and beliefs makes empathizing with my neighbor so much…

Riightt....

I am a foreigner and I lived in for my last year of high school in Virginia (I was the exchange student of the school).

I remember how people that said they were "atheist" were demonized (and chastised socially). These kids were smart, hard working, yet people would discriminate against them (socially), for not sharing the same religion.

I remember I had to say "I am agnostic", in order not to be chastised myself.

So, that "your culture is different", can extend to religion, ethnicity, last name, being vegan, etc.. etc... Lets call the spade a spade, it is a form tribalism and bigotry at the end of the day.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#225

Post by eli_gottlieb »

stillsut wrote: post #218
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a proxy for racism. I think it's its own form of xenophobia. I don't care which one is the "white" truck, I care that someone's drawing major social distinctions on the difference between one truck and another.

Well if the truck is your work then obviously people are going to draw distinctions over it. Which operating system shows you're smart: Windows or Linux? Is it "xenophobic" to prefer linux people? Also, Milton "ked" here. Of course I'd treat somebody from Milton differently, we share a whole unique culture which you clearly don't understand. You're the one being culturally ignorant: speaking of Milton and Medford as…

>Also, Milton "ked" here. Of course I'd treat somebody from Milton differently, we share a whole unique culture which you clearly don't understand. You're the one being culturally ignorant: speaking of Milton and Medford as equivalent because of skin tone is the same as comparing a Sikh to Arab, cause you know, the funny hat and facial hair and stuff right?

My wife is from Milton. She has nothing but nasty things to say about its "whole unique culture" ;-).

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#226

Post by jhpankow »

mikestew wrote: post #48
throwaway15814 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why'd you move out of Indiana my friend? |So you’re saying you absolutley lack the ability to fathom why someone might not share your enthusiasm? Also I can empathize why people are against Tesla, it's just the general mindset in the midwest when it comes to new technologies. There's no wrong or right it's just the way life is out there.

One -27F January day, I looked at my wife and said, “this is America, and we don’t have to live like this.” So we moved to North Carolina, then eventually got a gig with Microsoft. Haven’t worked at Microsoft in twelve years, but Seattle area suits us so we never left. Also I can empathize why people are against Tesla, it's just the general mindset in the midwest when it comes to new technologies. More than just the…

When it is -27F outside, what do you do? Do you go to work? Do you crank up the furnace and huddle under an electric blanket and wait for it to get above 0F again?

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#227

Post by throwawayjava »

stcredzero wrote: post #213
closeparen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern left-wing view of racism is as a systematic, structural power relationship between races. Individual decisions branching on skin color is neither necessary nor sufficient to get there, although it can and historically has contributed. For example, divesting from your neighborhood out of concern for your property value when PoC start to move in does not necessarily reflect an individual racial bias. It coul…

The modern left-wing view of racism is as a systematic, structural power relationship between races So in other words, it's pretty much Marxism. Just s/races/classes/.

You'd need a damn broad definition of Marxism for that to make much sense.

Economy and class are so central the Marx's philosophy that saying "Just s//class" doesn't make any sense. You can't just go into Capital and s//class and end up with anything that makes any sense. The entire analysis needs restructuring.

At some point, if Marxism is defined that way, you might as well just call any materialist philosophy "basically Marxist". Which is silly.

Tangentially, I've seen a lot of "so basically (cultural) Marxism" type comments lately about anything and everything left-leaning in the US. Something memetic is going on there.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#228

Post by stcredzero »

Balgair wrote: post #130
creaghpatr wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SPLC is not a credible organization for mapping 'hate groups'

Why?

Because there are people in the SLPC who are abusing the reputation of the organization as a political weapon. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an ex-muslim who wants to reform the society she came from and Majid Nawaz is a muslim reformer. Labeling what they are doing and saying as "hate speech" is intellectual dishonesty.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#229

Post by taway_1212 »

colanderman wrote: post #134
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Midwesterner, this is incredibly accurate. I personally don't like multiculturalism, and I don't know of many people in my area that do. In my opinion and experience, multiculturalism in society makes a sense of community very difficult if not impossible to create. Having standard methods of communication, standard social and moral norms, and standard goals and beliefs makes empathizing with my neighbor so much…

"I personally don't like multiculturalism" I'm pretty sure it was the offspring of people who "don't like multiculturalism" who beat me up in middle school for being part of geek culture rather than the prevailing rural culture of my hometown. I personally am a big fan of respecting others despite cultural differences.

Don't liking multiculturalism and respecting people different than you are two different things. You can be respectful and still wish to live in a more homogenous community.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#230

Post by crooked-v »

nickbauman wrote: post #216
stcredzero wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern left-wing view of racism is as a systematic, structural power relationship between races So in other words, it's pretty much Marxism. Just s/races/classes/.

Ha. Marxism adopted terms like "class struggle" from older, Classical political economic theory that came before it. What the parent said is only the tip of the iceberg. Racism is a system to divide people so they are easier to control. So it hurts both black and white and other POC by making whites and browns fear downward mobility by making examples out of blacks and other out groups. If you look at any of civil ri…

> Racism is a system to divide people so they are easier to control.

For a historical example, in early American colonial history it was common to have indentured and/or enslaved servants of all races, and the focus on exclusively black slavery only happened after multiracial revolts by the poor against the rich. Dividing poor white and poor blacks drastically reduced the number of revolts attempted by either group.

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