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The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

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Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#111
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like: you're blaming the drug dealers for telling people drugs are healthy and suppressing research that says they do any harm.

To be fair, there doesn't seem to be many people willing to significantly change their lifestyle to drastically minimize their carbon footprint.

No surprise when the oil companies have spent decades shaping everything to be dependent on them.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#112
post #62

The only real problem is that this was a decision made ad hoc. People whose neighborhoods are likely to be flooded by such a decision should know years in advance that they are designated for it.

Flood zones are meticulously mapped, and owning a property in them usually requires Federally mandated flood insurance. [ http://www.harriscountyfemt.org/ ]

The insurance mandate is what's kept those flood zone maps from being updated, so it's not as meticulous as you might think.

And it's not so much the insurance as you having to build for the flood when you ask for a building permit.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#113
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather in Kentucky pronounced Missouri 'Mizurah'.

I lived in the middle of Missouri from 1994 through 2014 and never once heard a voice say Missour-ah that wasn't coming from a candidate for office on TV. (To be fair, there might have been some people in rural parts of the state who did talk like that. But usually it's coming from people who probably shouldn't.)

The authentic pronunciation is more of a short "i" than a short "a". FYI, linguistic prescriptivism sucks.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#114
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the middle of Missouri from 1994 through 2014 and never once heard a voice say Missour-ah that wasn't coming from a candidate for office on TV. (To be fair, there might have been some people in rural parts of the state who did talk like that. But usually it's coming from people who probably shouldn't.)

The authentic pronunciation is more of a short "i" than a short "a". FYI, linguistic prescriptivism sucks.

I didn't say that people should pronounce Missouri only as "Missour-ee" and that other pronunciations are incorrect.

I offered my observation (intended with good humor) that it's not really true that Missourians by and large say "Missour-ah" -- or "Missour-ih" if you like -- but rather it's pretty much only politicians trying hard to sound folksy, and maybe a few older people in the most rural parts.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#115

Zeeland (and other parts of the Netherlands) now have a similar strategy in place - they've spent billions over the years on sea defences, which are absolutely stunning to behold, but have now done the sums and realised they've entered diminishing returns. It's cheaper to let certain areas flood and compensate than it is to build ever more expensive defences.

There was an interesting story a few months back about how the city of Nashville has a process where they buy homes in flood-prone areas at a "fair market price", then demolish the homes and convert the property to "green space" (preventing new buildings from being constructed). The main idea was that this is cheaper in the long run than the continuing cost of disaster recovery, emergency services, etc. for people in…

Austin has done that to homes along Onion Creek. Like you said - it's cheaper in the long run to buy the property so that people's homes don't get flooded, with all the knock-on effects afterwards.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#116

My first house had flooding problems every spring and heavy rain. Lesson learned: live on a hill.

Good luck finding one of those in Houston!

When a proper developer builds a home or sub-division in Houston, they bring in fill dirt and do compactions until the houses rest on small hills. You get frequent flooding (about once a year) but it rarely reaches the house before the flood prevention systems have a chance to divert and control it. The problem here is two-fold, as discussed in the article, these people built there homes INSIDE the flood diversion systems and never did due diligence on their home purchase to find out that they were in homes literally designed to be flooded and unscrupulous developers who improperly built or ignored the creation of new flood control when up-building developments that made previously safe areas at risk like the HP plant that flooded. Of course this implies that the city code/design/inspectors/etc. were not doing their jobs as well.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#117

I'm sorry these people lost their homes, but it does seem pretty straightforward that if you build in a flood plane your home might flood. If there is any failure here it's that they weren't given adequate warning before they flooded the neighborhoods. It sounds like they announced it for the next morning but because of the pace of the water rising they had to blow it over night instead. That's something you start an…

There was recently another article covering the construction of homes in the flood reservoir area. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15472082 According to the article, it sounds pretty bad. The city and county knew where the flood reservoirs were. The developers knew, there were "small notices on the plats" for these properties (which developers fought). Homewoner's never saw these plats and had no idea they were…

> the sentence was buried in the plat documents, which are not typically shown to homebuyers

Sounds like the developers withheld material information from the homeowners. If so, it seems clear who is liable.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#118

I'm sorry these people lost their homes, but it does seem pretty straightforward that if you build in a flood plane your home might flood. If there is any failure here it's that they weren't given adequate warning before they flooded the neighborhoods. It sounds like they announced it for the next morning but because of the pace of the water rising they had to blow it over night instead. That's something you start an…

> The other issue I see is that for some reason Houston didn't require all of these people to have flood insurance.

Not necessarily Houston. FEMA gets involved... if you're in a flood zone, FEMA mandates flood insurance (and so do the mortgage companies.)

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was recently another article covering the construction of homes in the flood reservoir area. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15472082 According to the article, it sounds pretty bad. The city and county knew where the flood reservoirs were. The developers knew, there were "small notices on the plats" for these properties (which developers fought). Homewoner's never saw these plats and had no idea they were…

> the sentence was buried in the plat documents, which are not typically shown to homebuyers Sounds like the developers withheld material information from the homeowners. If so, it seems clear who is liable.

It sounds like the city or county (it was unclear to me from the article) also holds some responsibility. They agreed to this "compromise" with the developers.

Re: The U.S. Flooded One of Houston’s Richest Neighborhoods to Save Everyone Else

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the point you're making. Also to be clear, your statement; > Harvey was the first cat3+ hurricane to hit the US in 12 years. is patently false, because in that time period we've had (and I'm including 2005); Katrina Cat. 5 (2005) Rita (2005) Wilma (2005) Ike Cat. 4 (2008) Sandy Cat. 3 at peak (2012) I didn't bother to correct you earlier, because Cat. 3+ hurricanes hitting the US are more or less a…

He specifically mentioned hitting the US. Ike hit Texas as a Cat 2 storm, Sandy hit the east coast as a Cat 2 storm. Their peaks (4, 3) were out in ocean/sea waters near the island nations. Of course, you don't have listen to me or the weather people who repeatedly say that storms have not increased in frequency or intensity (beyond their normal cycles) [0]. [0] - https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/90803095197598926…

Have I made the claim that it increases the frequency of occurrence? I feel that link is a red herring and obfuscates reality. What I, and all of the papers above, have been referring to is the frequency of intensity of storms. NOT the frequency of storms.

Other than the graphs I've already pasted, the phenomena shows up over and over again in the power dissipation index;

http://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/ngeo/journal/v3/...

Here's yet another paper on the topic and its graphs;

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/roypta/365/18...

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/365/1860/2695

> Of course, you don't have listen to me or the weather people who repeatedly say that storms have not increased in frequency or intensity (beyond their normal cycles) [0].

First of all, the graph you linked to only mentions the frequency of occurrence. It does not include intensity. Second, I trust well sourced papers featuring replicable research by scientists published in notable peer-reviewed journals over random people on Twitter.

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