Live data from Hacker News

All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

zdnet.com

151–160 of 206 posts

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#152
post #109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people are allowed to legally gamble away their money in situations where its 100% known that they will lose it all.

This is kind of why commercial casinos are illegal in 30 states, why racetrack betting is illegal in 29 states, why online gambling is illegal in 46(!) states, and why the only legal (non-charitable) lotteries are state-run. It's not leftover morality laws; it's that monitoring commercial gambling to protect against exploitation of the poor is a really hard problem, one we haven't really solved. Some states choose to…

> This is kind of why commercial casinos are illegal in 30 states, why racetrack betting is illegal in 29 states, why online gambling is illegal in 46(!) states, and why the only legal (non-charitable) lotteries are state-run.

And we all know no poor person in these states ever gambled their money away! Or, alternatively, they did gamble it away, but since gambling is illegal, they were also cheated mercilessly and have no recourse and no place to complain, since being poor and telling police you participated in illegal activity gets you an express ticket to jail.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#153
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

> There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth First: yes, there are ethical reasons to accumulate so many resources : because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve. Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who belie…

>because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve.

But there's not a whole lot of evidence that solving one problem truly lends itself to solving any other of any actual utility.

EDIT:

Downvotes are cool and all, but actual examples?

Offhand, Musk is probably an example. Gates has done good things, as well.

Meanwhile we also have people like Peter Thiel attacking freedom of speech. Or Larry Ellison. Or the Kochs. Or the Murdochs. Or the Waltons.

Not convincing to me if we're talking single digit percentages. I'm swayable, but it's going to require proof.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#154
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

> There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth First: yes, there are ethical reasons to accumulate so many resources : because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve. Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who belie…

Money is a social construct. A person can only earn money because as a society we've decided to create the rules and institutions that allow that to happen. Our current free-market system that assumes money should be accumulated freely and its ownership preserved by default is based on ideology, not physics.

Given the current massive wealth inequality, one really simple, effective, and ethical way to help people who are poor and suffering is to redistribute wealth. We don't do that because our political and cultural systems disproportionately represent the interests of the rich.

It's reasonable to say that as long as there are poor and suffering people, as long as we don't all have access to health care and education, as long as there are causes for the common good, there may be an asymptotic upper limit to the amount of wealth a single person can ethically have, when that wealth could be going toward improving other people's lives instead.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#155
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

> There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth First: yes, there are ethical reasons to accumulate so many resources : because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve. Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who belie…

> Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who believe it should be taken away from them to justify that.

This is a great example of status quo bias.

You believe that the onus of arguing ethics is on the people who want to change the status quo when really, we should start by thinking about what society ought to look like from first principles. And then you absolutely do have to give arguments for why you want any inequality to exist in the first place, let alone billionaires.[0]

> It's not a shame that there exist billionaires. It's a shame that there exist people with nothing. The former doesn't need fixing; the latter absolutely does.

While I'd agree that the latter problem is more urgent, the former can't be dismissed so easily, either. For one, the existence of billionaires (and upper-range millionaires, really) is pretty antithetical to one of the foundational principles of democracy, which is "one person one vote". It gets even worse when you consider the possibility and practice of inheritance.

And besides, some people might argue that if we didn't have the former problem, it might be easier to tackle the latter -- because when there is less inequality, there tends to be less focus on wasteful jockeying for social status overall, and then people might be more inclined to help those that are below themselves on the social ladder.

[0] There are good arguments in favor of some inequality, but the degree of it is pretty important.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#156
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

> There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth First: yes, there are ethical reasons to accumulate so many resources : because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve. Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who belie…

I think that there are similarities with gun control laws. The gun in wrong hands is a dangerous thing. Especially so if there are lots of hands. Billion dollars in the wrong hand is far more dangerous. Especially in a country that has lobbying as a standard way law influence.

Of course it's easier to get a gun then to become a billionaire. But billion dollars is closer to nuclear energy than to pistol.

I'm not sure if billionaire-control laws would be beneficial, but I understand why there are at least a few positives.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#157
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

> There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth First: yes, there are ethical reasons to accumulate so many resources : because some problems are incredibly hard to solve and need a lot of resources to even start to solve. Second, it is not on the people who have earned something to prove why they should be "permitted" to keep it; it's on the people who belie…

It seems that you have a very strong opinion on the matter already so I won‘t try to convince you to change it but I want to offer some points that follow from your perspective that you might not have considered before.

If you take into account the historical development of the world you basically argue for the natural state of affairs. The stronger or more powerful person is generally right and free to do as they please and the weaker have to bring forth good arguments or band together to become stronger to assert there „rights“. This is certainly the way it used to be and often still is but we humans have come up with societal arrangements to change this because we realized it is ineffective - there are simply more fights and less cooperation otherwise.

As you alude to in your last statement you agree that humans have basic rights and there needs should be met. However, regarding the effectiveness of social arrangements, do you really believe a society with a handful of super rich and a broad majority of have nots is going to be effective and cooperative? If you think about the natural state of affairs, who is more powerful, the many or the few? While it’s certainly not easy to organize large groups of people, it‘s possible and happening as seen with Trump and Brexit. These are movements which in my opinion have a strong attitude of „sticking it to the man“ and are a direct consequence of inequality. So I think if you somewhat follow your own logic to the end the billionaires actually have the burden of justifying their wealth to the general populace. Otherwise you would be mixing and matching rights and the natural state of affairs in a way that contradicts your own argument in the first place.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#158
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could likely run any of the BSD variants. Some form of commercial RTOS might also be viable. Even Minix might be an option (hire away some of those Intel folks!) though I'm not sure of its hardware support. That said, why bother? Linux is customizable enough to strip out almost everything extraneous for nodes and has the largest pool of experienced developers, and it's unlikely that any of the other options woul…

Why on earth would you want a RTOS for HPC? RT is all about privileging latency over throughput, whereas in HPC throughput is everything.

Perhaps not a RTOS per se, but latency is an issue for some HPC applications. Or not latency per se, but unpredictable latency among different nodes. The basic problem is that many large-scale simulations do frequent global barriers. So if one of the nodes is a bit slower because, say, the OS decided to schedule out the application and run ntpd for a fraction of a millisecond before switching back to the application, all the other nodes will wait. The more nodes, the higher probability that something like this happens, and application scalability takes a hit.

The term you want to search for is "OS jitter", lots of papers on that topic.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#159
post #21
post #4

A win for open source. I was just thinking the other day that it's a shame that Linus is not a billionaire. Seems he's doing just fine however: "Finnish-American software engineer and hacker Linus Torvalds has as estimated net worth of $150 million and an estimated annual salary of $10 million. He earned his net worth as the principal force behind the development of the Linux kernel." Source: https://www.therichest.c…

I don't think its so much a shame that Linus isn't a billionaire than it is we have billionaires at all. There is limited rational or ethical reason for one human being to accumulate so much centralized wealth. There is being rewarded for hard work / skill / innovation and there is exploiting people to become rich, and the line between those is very hard to distinguish when talking about individuals making more than…

There is no problem in having billionaires, there is no problem in an income gap. If we are all billioniares, fine. If the lowest income can buy everything they want, fine.

The problem is that billionaires buy politicians, people are too poor to live in western countries despite working, sometimes two jobs, and people with income from work pay for social security and income taxes while billionaires with income from capital gains don't pay relevant taxes and don't pay for social security or their fair amount for health care.

So focusing on billionaires is a distraction. We need to focus that people have meaningful income - especially with the coming AI/robot revolution - and meaningful lives. Capital gains and companies need to be taxed the way people with income from employed work are taxed and need to contribute the same amount to health care and social security.

But this will not happen, because see "buy politicians". There is only one reason that billionaires and celebrities hang around with boring politicians. It's the best investment.

Re: All 500 of the world's top 500 supercomputers are running Linux

#160
I vaguely remember that Microsoft offered version of Windows Server for HPC environments at one point.

Are the reasons for not using Windows purely financial (in a cluster with thousands of nodes the licensing costs can become substantial) or are there technical reasons as well?

Post reply on HN