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Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

nytimes.com

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Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#31

Post by hidenotslide »

omarchowdhury wrote: post #19
brm wrote: post #10

Fascinating to watch Rybolovlev move money in the open like this with the help of the art market apparatus. What a time to be alive. If you're not keeping track this was almost double the price expected for a da Vinci of questioned provenance sold by the fertilizer magnate who bought Donald Trump's Palm Beach mansion for double the estimated price and then never lived in it.

Wouldn't he need someone to pay that same amount or more for the painting to effectively have moved money with this apparatus? And if the next buyer is similarly motivated, isn't the valuation akin to a Ponzi?

Rybolovlev was the seller, the question is who is paying him and who did he buy it from for $127 million in the first place? At this high a price it seems more like money laundering than painting the tape, but who knows.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#32

Post by jhulla »

byebyetech wrote: post #24
omarchowdhury wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't he need someone to pay that same amount or more for the painting to effectively have moved money with this apparatus? And if the next buyer is similarly motivated, isn't the valuation akin to a Ponzi?

Ponzi scheme is a scam where buyer is fooled into buying something that has no value. Here if the painting is used as an apparatus to move money, it becomes sort of a currency to move $450 million dollars. As long as the big money movers honor its price it could be used for such purpose. Almost like Bitcoins!

Some ideas are ancient. The painting doesn't have to move. The money doesn't have to move. We just all agree to assign it to someone else.

"Because these stones are too large to move, buying an item with one simply involves agreeing that the ownership has changed. As long as the transaction is recorded in the oral history, it will now be owned by the person it is passed on to and no physical movement of the stone is required."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#33

Post by blunte »

comboy wrote: post #21
blunte wrote: post #16

Why is this a surprise? There's a point at which money no longer makes sense - both to the people without it as well as the people with it. There are many reasons for spending relatively incomprehensible amounts of money for something. One is to show others that you can; it's a demonstration of just how wealthy you are. Another is to try to make something special of the money that otherwise has reached a level of bei…

> What else is there? Storage of value. If you want to diversify, you may want something easy to move/hide for some scenarios. I'm not saying this painting works great for that purpose, just that that's one of the things that may make people want to buy it.

If you have $4bn, unless you're investing in Beanie Babies, you really don't have to struggle to find stable stores of value.

At that stratosphere of wealth, an art piece is not about diversification. It's a bit like buying a 200m yacht to surpass all other private yachts.

What I find amusing is that even the ultra rich people are statistically NEVER the richest people. There are perhaps 5 people in the world who could be debated as one of the richest people in the world. And their individual wealth exceeds the "poor rich" such as this person by a factor of 20+. To people outside their bubble it just looks "sad" (pardon the Trumpism).

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#34

Post by aaronbrethorst »

brm wrote: post #10

Fascinating to watch Rybolovlev move money in the open like this with the help of the art market apparatus. What a time to be alive. If you're not keeping track this was almost double the price expected for a da Vinci of questioned provenance sold by the fertilizer magnate who bought Donald Trump's Palm Beach mansion for double the estimated price and then never lived in it.

Holy shit, I totally missed that this was the Fertilizer King!

That eyesore of a house was actually torn down.

Back story:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/ct-donal...

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#35

Post by raldi »

brm wrote: post #10

Fascinating to watch Rybolovlev move money in the open like this with the help of the art market apparatus. What a time to be alive. If you're not keeping track this was almost double the price expected for a da Vinci of questioned provenance sold by the fertilizer magnate who bought Donald Trump's Palm Beach mansion for double the estimated price and then never lived in it.

Your summary was a little too clever for its own good, and I'm having trouble following. But I do find the idea intriguing that rare art presents a unique and seemingly-safe, almost "perfect-crime"-level opportunity for money laundering and bribery. Could you dumb it down a little?

Who are you alleging was the ultimate source of this money, and what was their real objective?

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#36

Post by mars4rp »

the interesting thing to me is how the face completely changed in the restoration(more like repainting)!

Jesus in color is very similar with our 21 century image of him, no mustache, eyes completely changed and ... the painting is relatively new compare to Jesus himself! and his image in the eyes of it followers changed so dramatically!

I am wondering what else could have changed in 2000 years!

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#37

Post by virtualwhys »

> The artwork has been the subject of legal disputes and amassed a price history that ranges from less than $10,000 in 2005, when it was spotted at an estate auction...

The heirs of that estate are probably not thrilled with this headline.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#38

Post by ktta »

the_common_man wrote: post #18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7omwQLuGJQ was the marketing campaign

If anyone want's to know the soundtrack, it is 'On the Nature of Daylight' by Max Richter.

If you think you've heard it somewhere, it was in Arrival - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543164/

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#39

Post by ryankupyn »

gowld wrote: post #25
TylerE wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10-15% is pretty standard in the auction world.

Still absurd to not discount when the price gets so high.

I'd actually be inclined to have an escalating fee (as a % of sale price) for a higher final price (relative to an independent appraisal) if I were a seller - just to keep the incentives aligned.
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