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Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

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Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#51
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin = fluctuation = jumps up and down prices = inflation = jumps up and up

if you need bitcoin to buy toilet paper, why not just buy toilet paper

With what?

Zimbabwe has been in a hyperinflation downward spiral for almost two decades now[1].

If you hold your Zimbabwe Dollars overnight, they are only worth a fraction of what they were the day before. In hyper-inflationary periods, people would rather buy goods immediately than hold onto cash because the cash depreciates FAR faster than commodities.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#/me...

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.... but bitcoin frequently jumps 25% a day on NON-domestic news.... how is it a better store of value?

That still beats hyperinflation or the currency collapsing outright. Also, what other investment options do you have? I have no idea how easy or hard it is to buy Vanguard shares on short notice in Zimbabwe.

Probably not hard for the elite or upper class, if you have access to the internet and an interactive brokers account.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you need bitcoin to buy toilet paper, why not just buy toilet paper

With what? Zimbabwe has been in a hyperinflation downward spiral for almost two decades now[1]. If you hold your Zimbabwe Dollars overnight, they are only worth a fraction of what they were the day before. In hyper-inflationary periods, people would rather buy goods immediately than hold onto cash because the cash depreciates FAR faster than commodities. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#/m…

His joke is that Zimbabwean dollars are toilet paper.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact check on it: https://africacheck.org/reports/is-zimbabwes-unemployment-ra... Basically, it's complicated, and nobody knows what to believe. The 95% figure is taken from the CIA World Factbook, and has been repeated frequently in mainstream media and on Wikipedia. However, depending on who you ask and how you count, it could be as low as 4%. Keep in mind that not everyone in the world takes Western institutions (…

I thought "economic unemployment" is defined by the people who seek a job while not having a current one. People who do not seek a job aren't counted. It's been a very long while since the economy classes though.

That's just how the US Bureau of Labor defines it, allowing elected officials to make the economy seem better than it is.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#55
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Bitcoin to succeed, it needs to conquer the US market adoption Genuinely: Why is that axiomatic? Why is there no path that is, reductively, in parts of the world where electronic payments are already normal, bitcoin becomes the instrument?

Because Zimbabwean consumer doesn't influence USA; but USA consumer influences rest of the world. I can't think of any technology besides micro-finance that has trickled-up to USA.

Possibly using your phone for payment which has been long popular in Asia as well as Africa.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#56
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Bitcoin to succeed, it needs to conquer the US market adoption Genuinely: Why is that axiomatic? Why is there no path that is, reductively, in parts of the world where electronic payments are already normal, bitcoin becomes the instrument?

Because Zimbabwean consumer doesn't influence USA; but USA consumer influences rest of the world. I can't think of any technology besides micro-finance that has trickled-up to USA.

Counterpoint: WhatsApp and WeChat are huge despite not having much of an American presence.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact check on it: https://africacheck.org/reports/is-zimbabwes-unemployment-ra... Basically, it's complicated, and nobody knows what to believe. The 95% figure is taken from the CIA World Factbook, and has been repeated frequently in mainstream media and on Wikipedia. However, depending on who you ask and how you count, it could be as low as 4%. Keep in mind that not everyone in the world takes Western institutions (…

I thought "economic unemployment" is defined by the people who seek a job while not having a current one. People who do not seek a job aren't counted. It's been a very long while since the economy classes though.

Which is a simple thing to look at when you're in a first world country with a functioning Unemployment Insurance office you can query to count such things. When you try to map that into different cultures and economic development statuses, it gets far fuzzier.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#58
post #20

I feel like there are whales that simply manipulate the price based on news. There's little evidence to suggest bitcoin has any usage in zimbabwe in practical day to day usage. Therelies the problem with bitcoin, why would someone in zimbabwe pay 1 week of their salary to move 3 weeks of pay and still not be sure if the money will still be there tomorrow?

Bitcoin is too big for a few "whales" to have a sizable effect on major price trends -- even if significant groups of them were somehow coordinated. This explanation is commonly used in general cryptocurrency forums and even some trading forums, but it really comes down to not understanding how markets work and trying to assign some meaning (not so different from religion). Whales are not gods.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With what? Zimbabwe has been in a hyperinflation downward spiral for almost two decades now[1]. If you hold your Zimbabwe Dollars overnight, they are only worth a fraction of what they were the day before. In hyper-inflationary periods, people would rather buy goods immediately than hold onto cash because the cash depreciates FAR faster than commodities. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#/m…

His joke is that Zimbabwean dollars are toilet paper.

No, I wasn't joking. I was asking sincerely, if you're reason for holding bitcoin is that you want to be able to buy goods next week without worrying about inflation, why not just buy the goods now and avoid the risk of owning bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin surges in Zimbabwe after military seize power

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact check on it: https://africacheck.org/reports/is-zimbabwes-unemployment-ra... Basically, it's complicated, and nobody knows what to believe. The 95% figure is taken from the CIA World Factbook, and has been repeated frequently in mainstream media and on Wikipedia. However, depending on who you ask and how you count, it could be as low as 4%. Keep in mind that not everyone in the world takes Western institutions (…

I thought "economic unemployment" is defined by the people who seek a job while not having a current one. People who do not seek a job aren't counted. It's been a very long while since the economy classes though.

...how do you define "seek a job" in a place where the concept of full-time employment is alien?

Therein lies the rub. If you dig into the stats, the 10% unemployment rate quoted in official government statistics - and measured accordingly to the methodology economists usually use, excluding people who have "given up on searching for a job - is based on a definition of "job" where they have worked (in cash or in kind) for at least one hour in the past week. By those stats, 50% of the country was not in the labor force, 45% was "employed" (for at least one hour a week), 5% was actively unemployed.

But then when you dig further, 75% of those classified as "employed" didn't receive any payment for their work. They bartered. So now we're looking at 12.5% employment. And 84% of those employed worked in the informal sector, i.e. maybe they did a couple hours of labor for another villager. Considering the large overlap between the bartering & informal sectors, we're at around 5% full-time employment in the country.

That shows the difficulty in applying models built for an industrial economy to regions that still primarily function on an agrarian economy. The definitions they use are nonsensical - they don't apply to how people qualitatively work. (There're similar difficulties applying models made for industrial economies to post-industrial economies - how do you classify someone who drives for Uber & Lyft at the same time while AirBnBing out their house, doing Instacart runs, running an Amazon import-export business over the Internet, trading in Bitcoin, and selling stuff on Etsy? Is that 0, 1, or 7 jobs? Are they a financier or taxicab driver?)

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