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How Firefox Got Fast Again

hacks.mozilla.org

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Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#681

Post by tgb »

iwascurious wrote: post #236
catamorphismic wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not unexpected that a piece of software uploads and saves everything you search for on a remote corporate server? When did this become so commonplace that users don't even blink an eye to it? And more importantly, why would anyone find this acceptable?

That's what the feature says it does! When you create a new Chrome profile and it asks you to sign it, it says "Sign in to Chrome with your Google Account to get your bookmarks, history, passwords, and other settings on all your devices." That's a valuable feature to many people including myself.

Yeah it's a widely advertised feature and you can obviously pull up tabs from one Chrome on one computer onto Chrome from another computer. There's no other way for this to work and it's actually useful. There's nothing underhanded going on here, except perhaps if (when) they sell the data to other parties.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#682

Post by zeveb »

mgbmtl wrote: post #264
zeveb wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do note that if you enable Firefox's sync functionality, all of your passwords will be encrypted with a function of your Mozilla Account password, and that Mozilla can target your browser instance with JavaScript to steal your account password at will (their protocol specifies that they never see your plaintext password, but they serve JavaScript to hash the password — which means they could serve JavaScript to send…

I agree that is a valid issue, but it's still quite a different scale than using Google. If I understand correctly, you're saying that we should be careful about saving passwords in Firefox if we could be the target of a National Security Letter from the US. The attack would be detectable, so it cannot be used very often (and they would need a really good excuse for doing so). By contrast, Google takes all our data a…

Oh, I certainly don't recommend Google over Firefox. But I do not recommend using Firefox's Sync functionality, which is indeed insecure by design.

I have no idea why so many downvotes. Can anyone disagree that a system in which Mozilla is able to decrypt user data is insecure?

One note: the attack is not necessarily detectable, unless you are in the practice of verifying the JavaScript you receive for each page. If there were some public registry of hashed versions of Mozilla-served JavaScript, it would be detectable.

Also, you need not worry only about the U.S. government, but also about any government which can compel Mozilla to act, and any government which can compel an employee of Mozilla to act, and finally any employees at Mozilla with access. And also you need to worry about bugs in Mozilla's JavaScript: since they did not design a system in which they can't know your password (which is the key to all your secrets), an implementation error might send them your password (and thus allow them to decrypt all your secrets).

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#683

Post by DiThi »

iterati wrote: post #678
DiThi wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like there's no movement, but I see enough movement to have both short-term alternatives, and medium term fixes. Read comment 46 and the next ones. They were super busy with what they can actually release with FF 57. Until today the issue wasn't really pressing. In a few days we'll see if they're serious about that issue.

You don't break something and then prioritize fixing it. That's backwards. If they knew it was going to break the proper thing to do it prioritize the fixes before it effects end users, not after. If I were to push up a breaking change this morning and just wait for bug reports, I'd be looking for a new job by this afternoon.

I would agree with you normally. But in this case there's a much bigger "bug" they must handle: The vast majority of users have migrated to Chrome or some other browser that don't respect their privacy.

We power users are like 1-2% of all FF users. I think it's acceptable to break some things for a while to bring back much more users than that.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#684

Post by DiThi »

iterati wrote: post #351
nindalf wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me personally, but there will always be a vocal minority who will complain about having their workflow broken. Any replacement will be missing some critical feature. For a person affected by this, it is a painful experience having their entire workflow broken so they resort to dire warnings on forums such as this one ('Firefox is finished without '). In this case, I think Firefox made a good choice in modernising…

Less "dire warnings on forums" and more "slow development pace for required pieces to make my workflow even possible again". Here's an issue opened June 9 that hasn't been addressed by the Mozilla team and hasn't had any updates in a month: https://github.com/cmcaine/keyboard-api/issues/1 Here's the request for a better keyboard API (referenced in the above) that's been open for over 2 years with no end in sight: htt…

> with no end in sight

Except an already developed patch and proposal that needs some time from the main devs to be reviewed. For a long time they were very busy making FF bearable for 90% of the users. Now that it's released we'll see if this issue is as stuck as you imply.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#685

Post by xenophonf »

madeofpalk wrote: post #245
mapgrep wrote: post #52

I switched back to Firefox 54 from Chrome when multiprocess browsing ("Electrolysis") came out of beta. It's been absolutely great. It's fast and I trust and like the nonprofit behind it. And all the extensions I care about are available. My main issue with Chrome was the endless nags to sign in to a Google account, and just generally wanting less dependence on Google. I also like that Firefox has a built in tracking…

> I also like that Firefox has a built in tracking protection (not just Do Not Track toggle but actual blocking of trackers Here's something I find curious. When Apple does it, it's because they want to kill the open web and drive more people to their closed Apple News platform. When Mozilla does it, it's because they're saints. How am I able to reconcile these two?

In my mind, the distinction is simple: Apple is a for-profit corporation, while Mozilla is a charity operating in the public interest. I sometimes agree with Apple's actions while simultaneously distrusting their motives, and I sometimes disagree with Mozilla's actions while simultaneously _trusting_ their motives.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#686

Post by ethagnawl »

cpeterso wrote: post #610
teamhappy wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nightly and beta releases are available as separate apps.

Google Play store link for Firefox Beta: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fi... Google Play store link for Firefox Nightly: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fe...

Thanks!

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#687

Post by iterati »

DiThi wrote: post #683
iterati wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't break something and then prioritize fixing it. That's backwards. If they knew it was going to break the proper thing to do it prioritize the fixes before it effects end users, not after. If I were to push up a breaking change this morning and just wait for bug reports, I'd be looking for a new job by this afternoon.

I would agree with you normally. But in this case there's a much bigger "bug" they must handle: The vast majority of users have migrated to Chrome or some other browser that don't respect their privacy. We power users are like 1-2% of all FF users. I think it's acceptable to break some things for a while to bring back much more users than that.

In the mean time, they've lost one of those power users (likely more, going by some of the discussion in issues for various vim-like plugins) and will, in the future, need to do something to entice me back. This experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not going to be rushing to go back to a browser that breaks functionality on me without prompt.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#688

Post by Zardoz84 »

leeoniya wrote: post #407
jakub_g wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW: if using Android, if FF is not for you, try Brave instead of Chrome. It feels exactly like Chrome (it's Chromium-based), but has a built-in adblocker, tracker blocking, HTTPS everywhere, no nagging to sign in, and does not throw "suggested news" (with no opt-out) upon you. Brave's founder is ex-Mozilla's CEO (Brendan Eich). However latest FF on Android is actually not bad, at least if you have a modern phone (th…

i would be using FF on Android if the scrolling was not so crappy. It's pretty terrible :(

using FF on a BQ Aquaris X. I don't notice any issue of speed or scrolling.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#689

Post by Ntrails »

NoGravitas wrote: post #668
Ntrails wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exiled Chrome to an "only when needed" role It's been my second browser for Twitch and Netflix only for a while now. I'm bit even sure how useful that is anymore if I'm honest as I've not tried them in firefox for a while - but they used to be unusable and I've become accustomed to having another browser for them

You don't need Chrome for Netflix anymore; it seems to work fine in current Firefox.

I'll try again soon-ish but I was seeing the netflix home page freeze for 5-10 seconds on open and often going unresponsive which is just intolerable tbh

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#690

Post by DiThi »

iterati wrote: post #687
DiThi wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree with you normally. But in this case there's a much bigger "bug" they must handle: The vast majority of users have migrated to Chrome or some other browser that don't respect their privacy. We power users are like 1-2% of all FF users. I think it's acceptable to break some things for a while to bring back much more users than that.

In the mean time, they've lost one of those power users (likely more, going by some of the discussion in issues for various vim-like plugins) and will, in the future, need to do something to entice me back. This experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not going to be rushing to go back to a browser that breaks functionality on me without prompt.

They lost me once for terrible, terrible performance. For a year or two until I really needed tree style tabs back. They need to prioritize. Deal with it.

Also, since you're a power user, why don't you use that proposed API already? It seems you don't even need to compile the browser or anything, just enabling a flag and installing the API as an addon.

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