Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The 6-year national college graduation rate is 59% for White students, 51% for Hispanic students, 46% for Black females, and 35% for Black males."[1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_...
There are racial differences with pretty much everything in the US. Are benefits for poor people racist because they disproportionally help black people? Is having a required entrance average for universities racist because black people have statistically lower grades/graduation rates? Sure, if you are choosing to filter applicants based on criteria where the only effect of the filtering is changing the racial distri…
Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
201–210 of 297 posts
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like what? Are you saying that most degrees, taught at universities today, could be condensed into 1 year, and the outcome would be that we'd have 19 year olds with the same skills as the 22 year olds graduating today? What degrees do you have in mind?
Almost half of the courses I took were subjects like English, History, Health, and so on. I don't doubt the value of these courses but they were competing for time and energy with courses like Linear Algebra and Calculus often to my detriment. I think an advanced degree could be condensed to 2-3 years or 4 years of part-time night school.
Notice the complete lack of anything that isn't computer science or mathematics.
The disadvantage is, if you decide you hate computing, you have to start again from almost nothing.
https://timetable.doc.ic.ac.uk/all/?start=02-10-2017&field=c...
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any source on Dirty Jobs dude and Google ban? Never heard about it.
https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1680626875280...
> 2) Just because you’re passionate about something, doesn’t mean you won’t suck at it. Which means...
> 3) Following your passion doesn’t always lead to lasting happiness or true job satisfaction. Ergo, my advice to graduates is...
> 4) "NEVER follow your passion, but ALWAYS bring it with you."
It's a shame it was censored. I could have used that advice. I've been considering a career transition into the trades, anyway.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#204At the same time, this seems to be suggesting that anyone could be doing a trade school type of education instead of college, while to me it seems that is is the lower entry into any form of education. If college equals trade school, then college in the USA needs to up it's game.
Learning a trade is only useful up to a point. As others have posted, there is no point in having 100 million machinists all being very capable of re-manufacturing tower crane gearboxes. Even a million would not make any sense. There is also a limit to what you can do with your time. While you don't need to be a millionaire to be happy, the limit to what you can earn is comparatively low when you are working at the practical side of things vs. what steering/planning/administrating and up can earn.
This does not mean that trade school is by definition 'stupid' and if you don't go to college or university (or is that the same in the USA?) you are therefore not smart, but it does limit your capabilities, at least in terms of growth. Now, if you are comfortable with a trade, if it gets you what you want, there would be no point in going to college. At the same time, if college is too hard, and learning beyond basic literacy and mathematics is not an option, you might be stuck at trade level.
One of the bigger problems with 'trade' or 'labour' type of skill is that it often is very limited in abstracted transferrable knowlegde. What if the way some thing are done are replaced. Say you are very good at cleaning chimneys, that's great, but nobody needs your skills. Or what if you are very good at shining shoes. Or driving horse carriages. Or digging holes and putting down outhouses. This is the same for most of the current trade type of work, it is only useful as long as people need you, and when they don't you can't really go do something else because you don't have the theory behind what you were doing to re-implement it somewhere else.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a pretty absurd thing to say so matter of factly. 62% of US billionaires are self made [1]. Many of us tech workers have experienced incredible upward mobility. 1. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269593
What percent of billionaires come from Upper Middle class families? Most.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I generally agree with you, but I'm always hesitant when I hear the word "apprenticeship." Because in my experience that usually means a union is stopping less experienced workers from undercutting their prices on the open market by forcing the less experienced worker to pay the union for the privilege of doing work. In this way it functions similarly to the way the college scheme works, only the college scheme is fo…
Apprenticeships should be regulated (by the state). You should have some degree at the end that qualifies you to also work for a potential competitor. Meaning they should teach you a solid but generic base of skills. And not just let you do manual labour that doesn't require much skill.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yet they only paid dimes to these countries You seem to have been taught a rather selective history. - Germany was forced to cede a quarter of its territory after WW2, to exactly the allied neighbouring countries in addition to the ones already ceded in WW1. In the east, Germans were ethnically cleansed from those areas. (The western parts were later given back to Germany because France and Netherlands found ethnic…
Are you a german ? Because germans are usually the ones spreading lies like this. - Germany was forced to cede a territory to the Soviet union and the SU gave it to Poland. While Poland lost bigger land in the east. - Which happened to almost all countries under SU - Source ? - cash reparations ? Are you kidding me ? If you do the math it's like giving greece 10 euros while you took millions from them.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#208I would simplify it and say that learning trade skills is a better investment for most people than attending a 4-year college. Trade skills can be learned at a young age, right from home, where there is room and time to explore and enjoy the learning process. Why we wait until after high school to teach kids in-demand skills boggles my mind. All the pressure in the world arrives after high school. It's time to start…
Your comment reminded me of an essay Paul Graham wrote. (See the link below.) He argues that modern society has taken kids, isolated them from participating in greater society, and made school a "job" to them. The consequence is that teenagers feel out of step with society because they don't participate in it, the way that they did when apprenticeships were common. This observation supports the premise of the essay.…
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment reminded me of an essay Paul Graham wrote. (See the link below.) He argues that modern society has taken kids, isolated them from participating in greater society, and made school a "job" to them. The consequence is that teenagers feel out of step with society because they don't participate in it, the way that they did when apprenticeships were common. This observation supports the premise of the essay.…
That's interesting. I was a volunteer firefighter from ages 12-19 and while it's not for everyone (and some tasks were not for me) the overall experience during that time in my life taught me a lot of values that you don't get in sports / schooling... the value of a human life- and that is- that you would put yours on the line for theirs. Not to mention to see someone TRULY in need and being equipped to provide that…
I suspect this anti-intellectual attitude is underrated as a key problem in American culture. There could be greater value for lifelong learning, science (as in valuing empiricism over arbitrarily inventing your own facts), problem-solving oriented attitudes, and open-ended discussion. People shouldn't feel complacent and act like they don't have room for more knowledge and improvement.
Parents pass on flawed ideas about education or have lax standards about school work performance. I'd see evidence of this as how the most affluent class tends to put a lot of emphasis on educational achievement and the results pay off (but I don't believe this status quo is the best approach).
It exists in our politics. An open hostility toward The Establishment often includes institutions of education.
It inhibits the effectiveness of schools and teachers if a student lacks the attitude and is unreceptive. A student can both have a strong work ethic but not care about educational attainment. Evidence of this might be that increases of spending on education seem to lack consistent increases in outcomes. Early childhood education is seen as beneficial, but then the benefits tend to even out (maybe as students become acclimated to anti-intellectual culture).
People who can learn how to learn, or who appreciate and support those who can as leaders, will generally be better off.
Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly this. There is a lot of unmet demand in trade labor in even "low rent" places like Las Vegas.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. There's a lot of demand for the blue collar equivalent of CRUD apps that isn't met because there are no "cheap" blue collar professionals around. A lot of people would be willing to pay a plumber to fix their sink, an electrician to replace a light fixture with a ceiling fan or a welder to build hand railings if there were more options for those services that fell between "l…