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Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

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Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#151

Yeah, but from career politicians POV: we want liberal arts. STEM or trade skills.... that is risky. They may want a smaller gov. So no way politics will go this way. For example, the Dirty Jobs guy? His video is banned by Google. True.

Any source on Dirty Jobs dude and Google ban? Never heard about it.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#152
post #151

Yeah, but from career politicians POV: we want liberal arts. STEM or trade skills.... that is risky. They may want a smaller gov. So no way politics will go this way. For example, the Dirty Jobs guy? His video is banned by Google. True.

Any source on Dirty Jobs dude and Google ban? Never heard about it.

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1680626875280...

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#153
post #2

Remove the social stigma of not going to college. Hardly any tv shows that show young non college grads as positive.

>Remove the social stigma of not going to college. Hardly any tv shows that show young non college grads as positive. Or just make college useful and accessible. Give people the option of a European style undergrad where there is no liberal arts breadth, only technical courses. If we had accredited colleges doing 3 year bachelor degrees in STEM, the system would be much more efficient.

If colleges concentrated on 'be able to write, read and communicate', 'understand basics of math, physics, chemistry, biology, finance and IT' there would be no one to pay salaries of professors/teachers/staff/leaches in women's studies, basket weaving, and african interpretive dance departments.

Edit: No amount of downvoting will change that taking a classes in african interpretive dace department that satisfy the "cultural enrichment criteria" needed to graduate is a waste of money. Money spent on fluff and money that will need to be paid back.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#154
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed+. This is anecdotal, but I tried recently to get roof repairs made in CA for a rental home I own. I called 20+ roofers none of whom are taking new projects. I was able to get one quote from a friend of friend for over $1k for about 4 hours of work -- but he made no commitment. Plumbers, AC guys, roofers are in incredible demand in CA - need an electrician? forget it. These guys all own their own companies, dri…

That sounds odd. Why don't roofers increase their fees until supply matches demand?

I would guess that roofing services have inelastic demand, meaning that a change in price doesn't affect demand much. A home owner often doesn't have much choice about whether or not to repair their roof, if it needs to be done then it needs to be done.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upward mobility is a lie. There are tons of studies and books on this - Thomas Piketty might be one.

That’s a pretty absurd thing to say so matter of factly. 62% of US billionaires are self made [1]. Many of us tech workers have experienced incredible upward mobility. 1. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269593

What percent of billionaires come from Upper Middle class families?

Most.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still a stigma... The difference is that you have to be kinda smart to even get into Highschool first. Otherwise you basically have no other options than to do an apprenticeship or a trade school after middle school.

> Otherwise you basically have no other options than to do an apprenticeship or a trade school after middle school. Which is much better than doing nothing at all, or going for some useless degree in college that will take you to debt. Not everyone is smart, I am one of those people (pretty dumb), it is fine.

Yes I agree. It's by design, so that only the ~30% best are recommended to visit highschool. It's a much better solution than just forcing everyone through college, even if they are just not meant to be academics.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#157
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed+. This is anecdotal, but I tried recently to get roof repairs made in CA for a rental home I own. I called 20+ roofers none of whom are taking new projects. I was able to get one quote from a friend of friend for over $1k for about 4 hours of work -- but he made no commitment. Plumbers, AC guys, roofers are in incredible demand in CA - need an electrician? forget it. These guys all own their own companies, dri…

That sounds odd. Why don't roofers increase their fees until supply matches demand?

They are, in most regards. In most places in the US the cost of reroofing a house has doubled or tripled in the last decade.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#158
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sudbury and Montessori schools offer a model that seems to encourage students to learn at their own pace Provides a positive feedback loop that seemed to have positive results in the real world as well

My children are in a Montessori school. There is no evidence that children from most 'alternative' teaching systems do better or worse than those in 'regular' schools. My children like the school and it's conveniently located, so we have no intention of changing; but it's not the teaching system that makes or breaks a student (well, the more loony systems like Steiner schools have documented worse outcomes than other…

  There is no evidence that children from most 'alternative'
  teaching systems do better or worse than those in
  'regular' schools.
I'd be interested to know more about that - could I ask where you learned that?

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#159

I reacted strongly and positively to the headline of this piece...and even more positively to the article. Apprenticeship was once considered more important than academic degrees in many areas. The balance has gone too far towards academia, and blue collar 'workers' don't get nearly enough respect IMO

I generally agree with you, but I'm always hesitant when I hear the word "apprenticeship." Because in my experience that usually means a union is stopping less experienced workers from undercutting their prices on the open market by forcing the less experienced worker to pay the union for the privilege of doing work. In this way it functions similarly to the way the college scheme works, only the college scheme is fo…

Apprenticeships should be regulated (by the state). You should have some degree at the end that qualifies you to also work for a potential competitor.

Meaning they should teach you a solid but generic base of skills. And not just let you do manual labour that doesn't require much skill.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#160
post #157
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds odd. Why don't roofers increase their fees until supply matches demand?

They are, in most regards. In most places in the US the cost of reroofing a house has doubled or tripled in the last decade.

Because the industry basically milks the insurance companies, the customer doesn't actually pay (much).
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