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Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

nytimes.com

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Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#101

Post by [deleted] »

drawnwren wrote: post #77
ethbro wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like those kinds of more removed scenarios point to a strategic void in compartmentalization. We (US, Soviet Union, etc) had this figured out in the 60s when we were primarily using human intel. [1] Except the danger that now, instead of walking out with rolls of film covering a few thousand pages, someone can take everything they have access to in My only explanation is all those long-won counter-intelligen…

To be fair, we were also executing people on the suspicion of treason in the 50s.

[deleted]

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#102

Post by QAPereo »

mnm1 wrote: post #83

Great. I hope this continues. The more the NSA has problems, the better off the rest of the rest of us are. It's unlikely the institution is even lawful--its practices certainly aren't. At the very least, it proves that the government cannot itself keep secrets, so it really needs to shut up about trying to put backdoors into software when it can't protect its own most vital software assets from leaking. I guarantee…

Unless “us” is other alphabet agencies competing for the same budget, be realistic. The NSA is not the problem, it’s the attitude, culture, and insane funding of their mission which is the problem. The failure of the agency will not change that, just redirect it.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#103

Post by angry_octet »

ethbro wrote: post #41
jelly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was covered in a recent kaspersky paper[1], which I found in [2], where it is termed "fourth-party collection". The pdf gives a more complete description on page 2 (I found the increasing level of separation between collector and reciever to be almost comical) [1] https://cdn.securelist.com/files/2017/10/Guerrero-Saade-Raiu... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15663985

It seems like those kinds of more removed scenarios point to a strategic void in compartmentalization. We (US, Soviet Union, etc) had this figured out in the 60s when we were primarily using human intel. [1] Except the danger that now, instead of walking out with rolls of film covering a few thousand pages, someone can take everything they have access to in My only explanation is all those long-won counter-intelligen…

I can assure you that 'taking' data off these systems is non-trivial -- Snowden was one of the few people with physical access and admin access. Attempting to access a large amount of info in 24H would also set off alarms. There is also no end to the pain-in-the-ass rules.

But the gist of what you are saying is correct, a lot more interconnection, a lot more software, using standard (albeit locked down) desktop operating systems. I think there was a realisation that the ultra-compartmented sharing-via-paper approach was killing effectiveness.

What I haven't seen in any of the SB leaks is evidence of access to core NSA systems via implants or a very trusted source. All the powerpoints could all be individual data spills, collected over time. All the TAO tooling could be stuff that sat on the dev system behind some bastion host, ready to be pushed to staging servers. Personally, I would only let binaries get that far out, but operational exigencies occur, high side operators can be phished, etc.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#104

Post by c3534l »

> N.S.A. employees have been subjected to polygraphs

Oh,good to see an organization entrusted with an unconstitutional amount of data on Americans is defending against those threats with rank pseudoscience. Maybe they should hire a psychic to find that mole of theirs.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#105

Post by Spooky23 »

forapurpose wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal pay sucks by design. If you want to work for .gov, you want state/local government. The Feds want to contract out for anything they can. So you work for Lockheed or whatever and get most of the attributes of government employment.

> Federal pay sucks by design. If you want to work for .gov, you want state/local government State and local government employees are paid well? Where? Which ones?

Many state governments pay much better than the Federal government and offer better benefits, and don’t require that you live in the DC crazy corridor. Local governments depend on the locality — big counties and cities pay ok.

It all depends on what is valuable to you.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#106

Post by belorn »

meowface wrote: post #72

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

I believe part of it must be to basic economics. It is only worth leaking information if the individual believe that the benefit outweigh the costs (ie, chance of positive outcome vs risk of negative outcome). if the political environment is one where a leak would have minimal impact, then the leaker has less incentive to leak.

Is it likely that a leak would impact the Russian election? Could a leak cause the Communist Party of China to be voted out of office? How likely is it that a leak would not simply be suppressed, but rather cause a change in the political direction?

Leaks in the US has a history of causing real change. That could be the biggest reason why we don't see much leaks from other superpowers' intelligence organizations.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#107

Post by Sebguer »

c3534l wrote: post #104

> N.S.A. employees have been subjected to polygraphs Oh,good to see an organization entrusted with an unconstitutional amount of data on Americans is defending against those threats with rank pseudoscience. Maybe they should hire a psychic to find that mole of theirs.

Realistically, they probably have.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#108

Post by godelski »

daxorid wrote: post #98
natch wrote: post #17

One thing that is not talked about enough with NSA is that if they are capable of leaking some of their most sensitive and powerful tools, then they are also capable of leaking the most sensitive and private information they collect on people. Perhaps this has not yet happened, or perhaps it has (someone will no doubt point out any known incidents here if there are any) but the idea is unnerving. Maybe my wording is…

Exfiltration is a problem. It's more difficult to exfil terabytes of individual citizen dossiers than ~2GB of malware, implants, tools, scripts, etc from classified and possibly even SCIF environments. Or it could be more prosaic than that: Money. The market value of NSA tooling is likely far far higher than the threat assessments of Joe Blow Smith in Hoboken, NJ.

I don't think the concern is Joe Smith. The concern is high level people who can easily be blackmailed. Or even just someone who works in a classified setting. The value of blackmailing a few political elites is extremely powerful and profitable. Or even people in big companies like FAANG.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#109

Post by [deleted] »

mnm1 wrote: post #83

Great. I hope this continues. The more the NSA has problems, the better off the rest of the rest of us are. It's unlikely the institution is even lawful--its practices certainly aren't. At the very least, it proves that the government cannot itself keep secrets, so it really needs to shut up about trying to put backdoors into software when it can't protect its own most vital software assets from leaking. I guarantee…

[deleted]

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#110

Post by _8j50 »

greenleafjacob wrote: post #96
_8j50 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their soldiers shot their own people and received rewards? I find that hard to believe. Or did you mean computer attacks? In communist and authoritarian nations, monitoring what the people are doing is normal(to account for potential dissent),but they would also shoot/imprison their own people over political dissent. Maybe the U.S. is no better than those nations. Still doesn't make it right. If a soldier does not pr…

Tiennamen Square...

I guess that qualifies and makes a good example of an unpatriotic soldier blindly obeying orders.
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