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Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

nytimes.com

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Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#71

Post by techsupporter »

snowpanda wrote: post #53

It's interesting to see the complete lack of self-reflection on Jake Williams' part. “I felt like I’d been kicked in the gut." This is to how a lot of people felt after the Snowden leaks. “Every time it happens, you essentially have to start over.” This goes both ways too. Every time something is compromised by the NSA, we have to start encrypting yet another part of our lives. “It’s embarrassing that the people resp…

> It's interesting to see the complete lack of self-reflection on Jake Williams' part.

At the risk of putting words in his mouth, but based on chats I've had with people who do this kind of work: Mr Williams probably sees what he does as righteous, legal, and noble while The Others he rails against are evil, immoral, and unlawful. It's not self-reflection because he thinks he was in the right and those other people are not.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#72

Post by meowface »

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#73

Post by marssaxman »

jhiska wrote: post #58
dmitrygr wrote: post #2

Good. Working as intended. They could use some slowing and shaking. > calling into question [..] its very value to national security Its what now?

When Americans rejoice that their own institutions are failing... it speaks to how they view their own government as an enemy. What are elections for in a representative democracy if the people elected don't represent the majority?

America would like to become a representative democracy when it grows up, but it has a long way to go yet.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#74

Post by 0xbear »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #66
0xbear wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I suggest that? And you try to beat Cruz or Rubio (let alone “arrogant” Clinton and the entirety of mainstream press), and then come here and tell us if it’s a noteworthy accomplishment.

Um. You're telling me the party that had 7+ years to plan for the repeal & replace of ACA but completely failed at that has able leadership? Those who campaigned for the ticket was the cream of the GOP crop. They're not competent. How is Trump punching his way out of a wet paper bag a sign of significance? I'm being snarky. I'm curious as to how anyone can see the rest of the GOP'ers that tried to get the nomination…

Hillary wasn't worthy of her nomination, and yet here we are. Jeb Bush attempted the same thing, but failed very early on.

You're failing to recognize that GOP establishment hates Trump just as much as Democratic establishment does. They would rather fail themselves than let him win, because they feel it in their guts that if he wins, he won't keep them around for long. He's an anti-establishment candidate. That's the platform he ran on, and that's the platform he will run on in 2020 (and likely win again, unless Democrats can suppress their utter disdain for rural, working class voters).

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#75

Post by wolf550e »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59
godzillabrennus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is the underlying cause of their security issues. People involved cannot voice their dissent so they act it out. The NSA and CIA are institutions established to protect a nation that abides by the rule of law. When the rule of law is brushed aside the people who are part of that system rebel.

I very frankly believe one of the more patriotic things an American with the ability can do is emulate Snowden, i.e. infiltrate and expose the NSA’s domestic surveillance programs.

But it's not patriotic to give NSA tools to the Russians, to hurt the ability of the NSA to spy on Russia.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#76

Post by lawnchair_larry »

wolf550e wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very frankly believe one of the more patriotic things an American with the ability can do is emulate Snowden, i.e. infiltrate and expose the NSA’s domestic surveillance programs.

But it's not patriotic to give NSA tools to the Russians, to hurt the ability of the NSA to spy on Russia.

Why Russia?

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#77

Post by drawnwren »

ethbro wrote: post #41
jelly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was covered in a recent kaspersky paper[1], which I found in [2], where it is termed "fourth-party collection". The pdf gives a more complete description on page 2 (I found the increasing level of separation between collector and reciever to be almost comical) [1] https://cdn.securelist.com/files/2017/10/Guerrero-Saade-Raiu... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15663985

It seems like those kinds of more removed scenarios point to a strategic void in compartmentalization. We (US, Soviet Union, etc) had this figured out in the 60s when we were primarily using human intel. [1] Except the danger that now, instead of walking out with rolls of film covering a few thousand pages, someone can take everything they have access to in My only explanation is all those long-won counter-intelligen…

To be fair, we were also executing people on the suspicion of treason in the 50s.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#78

Post by QAPereo »

natch wrote: post #17

One thing that is not talked about enough with NSA is that if they are capable of leaking some of their most sensitive and powerful tools, then they are also capable of leaking the most sensitive and private information they collect on people. Perhaps this has not yet happened, or perhaps it has (someone will no doubt point out any known incidents here if there are any) but the idea is unnerving. Maybe my wording is…

The main point is that they can no longer say "trust us" with a straight face.

If the politics of the last few decades has tried to teach us anything, it's that this is not true. No amount of shaming or obvious shortcomings will ever allow some people to bridge the reality/ideology-gaps in question. You don't see less lying as people are confronted with their lies, you're met with a hurricane of new lies, a Gish Gallop of misinformation, over and over. If all goes truly wrong, then people in power embrace the genuinely Orwellian and start talking about freedom in chains, or peace in war.

Nothing shakes them out of it, and nothing really changes how some people view it. Or at least, nothing so minor as what the future might hold; most people seem to struggle with what's actually happening today, under their noses.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#79

Post by _8j50 »

ethbro wrote: post #47
_8j50 wrote: post #36

In any military force,turning your weapon against your own people is worse than being a traitor,running from battle in cowardice or surrendering to the enemy. Their continued attack(yes,using malware and implants against someone is an attack) against their own people is in my opinion completely shameful and unpatriotic. As someone who has no intention of breaking any law or of harming the united states,it is simply n…

This would be your person opinion, given that the militaries of the US, the UK, China, Russia, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Mexico, Spain, etc. (probably easier to name those that haven't) have officially performed such actions, with the soldiers in question receiving official honors and rewards?

Their soldiers shot their own people and received rewards? I find that hard to believe. Or did you mean computer attacks? In communist and authoritarian nations, monitoring what the people are doing is normal(to account for potential dissent),but they would also shoot/imprison their own people over political dissent.

Maybe the U.S. is no better than those nations. Still doesn't make it right. If a soldier does not protect his people and their rights then he becomes nothing more than a henchman for politicians - worse than a traitor.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#80

Post by Spooky23 »

Wonnk13 wrote: post #44

Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks.

Federal pay sucks by design. If you want to work for .gov, you want state/local government.

The Feds want to contract out for anything they can. So you work for Lockheed or whatever and get most of the attributes of government employment.

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