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Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

richmond.com

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Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#221

Post by fjsolwmv »

krisives wrote: post #202
oliwarner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is becoming clear now is that not all opiate addicts are recreational users. Many are victims of inappropriate prescriptions and lack of follow-up and supervision.

For how long though? Having watched it first hand you can make whatever excuse you want for the first use, bad boyfriend, pharma industry, etc. My sister has been on heroin for probably 8 years now. She will call and ask for money and if anyone says no she spouts this same bullshit about it's not her fault etc. and she's an addict. We send her to rehab, she runs away, can't even tell you how many times I've seen it.…

Why didn't you notice the dirtiness before heroin?

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#222

Post by oldmandutch »

dep_b wrote: post #217
nickik wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You argument that nobody decides to have cancer is true but it applies to tons of stuff. You don't decide that your car breaks down. You don't decide that a storm is coming. You don't decide the change in import controls for goods from China. There are literally millions of things that you don't decide. The very reason we have capitalism is that we have dynamic system that reacts to feedback and finds or at least mov…

A car analogies, the best ones! If your car breaks down there are other means of transportation like getting a Uber, renting a car, carpooling, riding a bicycle or even walking. This is the typical "infinite" possibilities situation where capitalism really blossoms. I personally don't own a car because exactly all of those reasons, so I chose to never have a car that I need to repair. I hate things to maintain. Now i…

People also choose to smoke, drink alcohol, take drugs, not exercise, lay out in the sun, engage in unprotected sex, all things which can lead to health problems. So your anti car analogy isn’t quite right ;)

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#223

Post by Feniks »

hycaria wrote: post #190
dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

You know this problem is not really prevalent in places with legit healthcare systems, Europe amongst all ? And that we don't pop opiods to all suffering patients, ie we can allow things to hurt a bit sometimes it's not that big a deal, and it's surely better than getting hooked to stuff. Why blame the pharmaceutical industry. Your practitionners and your patients have a problem.

Its not a Jewish conspiracy.

People take drugs because they are unhappy. Show me a drug addict and I'll show you someone with a mental illness, trauma or severe life problems.

Apparently in the US right now there are lots of people who feel pretty bad about life. I can relate.

But Jewish conspiracy is easier to grasp and deal with.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#224

Post by toasterlovin »

lostlogin wrote: post #193
gizmo686 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what ways were the Establishment of America, and post WW2 post scarcity? US inflation adjusted per capita GDP is higher today than at either of those times. While I do not think GDP is a great metric, I cannot think of any metric where we, as a society, have less "stuff" to go around then before.

It’s not the amount of stuff, it’s the inequality.

Right, but "post-scarcity" is about stuff, no?

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#225

Post by swendoog »

matwood wrote: post #80
TaylorGood wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear. Partaking in heavy drugs to any degree invites those dark unknowns. The number of hands these drugs pass through to reach the end-user is more than a couple. I recall on average it's 8 different turnovers. Each time, likely being cut down. They operate a margin business without concern for where it ends up. It's likely safe to say that a vast majority of drugs are cut these days. A friend I grew up wit…

I can see how people move to something like heroin after being on pain meds and getting addicted, but who really just 'tries' heroin? At this point, the mix danger and addiction danger is well known and publicized. I'm asking, because I cannot mentally put it together, particularly if someone has life going in the right direction.

> "but who really just 'tries' heroin"

Natural. Selection.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#226

Post by UncleMeat »

nickik wrote: post #212
mirimir wrote: post #162

This is just so sad. It costs less to prescribe drugs than to diagnose and treat underlying problems. So the American profit-driven medical system relies heavily on drugs, especially for poorer patients. And drug companies love addictive drugs. So we get lots of opiate-addicted patients. And then there's the "drugs are evil" mindset, which justifies criminalization. Even preventing pain is too much like having fun. S…

It has nothing to do with profit driven. The problem is about intensives. The perverse US health care system with all its regulation has made it so that doctors primary make money by giving away pills. There were other models where people would basically have subscription to clinics and those would have a intensive to keep you healthy. The problem is that all alternative models are literally illegal. Check out this p…

This explains why countries with more regulation (to the point of state run medicine in England) don't have nearly the same problem with opioid addiction, right?

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#227

Post by andrei_says_ »

btown wrote: post #130
andrei_says_ wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently re-read the story about the rat park experiment. http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/rat-park/ The gist of it is that yes, rats do get addicted to morphine and prefer it to food, but only if kept in cages . The rats living in a much less confined space with other rats, allowed to play, nest, have sex and do pretty much all the rat fun things not only did not get addicted to morphine but even waned themselv…

Something I often think about is whether having a job - the agency to by one's own hand change one's prospects in life, to "provide for one's family" - is our equivalent of this "less confined space." In a post-automation post-scarcity world, despite boundless entertainment and resources (things that would make rats perfectly happy)... would ennui still drive people towards self-destructive behavior? And in fact, wou…

If you look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the need for meaning / meaningful contribution is extremely important.

I’d say that jobs in the context of survival are useful, but we as human beings also need a sense of accomplishment, of being useful to others beyond the value associated with mere profit.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#228

Post by corvallis »

nickik wrote: post #210
dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

You argument that nobody decides to have cancer is true but it applies to tons of stuff. You don't decide that your car breaks down. You don't decide that a storm is coming. You don't decide the change in import controls for goods from China. There are literally millions of things that you don't decide. The very reason we have capitalism is that we have dynamic system that reacts to feedback and finds or at least mov…

I’d encourage you to read a book called Drug Dealer, MD. It details how pain was made “the fifth vital sign” and doctors could lose their board certification and license if patients filed complaints alleging that their pain was not adequately treated by their provider. Even today, surveys that are sent out following hospital encounters ask people if their pain was addressed to their satisfaction. It’s difficult to withhold opioids when your livelihood is on the line.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#229

Post by miej »

nickik wrote: post #210
dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

You argument that nobody decides to have cancer is true but it applies to tons of stuff. You don't decide that your car breaks down. You don't decide that a storm is coming. You don't decide the change in import controls for goods from China. There are literally millions of things that you don't decide. The very reason we have capitalism is that we have dynamic system that reacts to feedback and finds or at least mov…

Except this is an actual known "evil capitalist" scenario, where pharma execs literally bribed doctors to over-prescribe opioids. RICO conspiracy charges are generally reserved for the likes of the mafia, and even then are rare due to the overwhelming burden of proof required. I'm honestly not sure who I consider worse in this case: the pharma execs handing out bribes, or the doctors who accepted them.

Reference: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/pharmaceutical-executives...

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#230

Post by vorotato »

krisives wrote: post #218
jrowley wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough - sounds like we may irreconcilable ethical differences. Maybe I'll get more exposed to the issue and more jaded over time. Thanks for explaining your perspective.

I got up to get something to eat and the restaurant I wanted to eat at couldn't open because a group of heroin addicts outside sleeping on the steps refused to move until they were given food. That was about 40 minutes ago.

seems like a power play the restaurant could win by grabbing some taco bell.
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