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Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

richmond.com

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Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#201

Post by jrowley »

kakarot wrote: post #180
jrowley wrote: post #9

Just the other morning I got off of bart in downtown Oakland, 12th street and there was a guy just laid out, unresponsive right on the steps outside the station. He had smoked something out of a can. I stuck with the guy while the paramedics came, but the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on. When the paramedics took off his shirt he still had adhesive on his skin from the EKG straps…

> the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on. Oh my god. I bet you had to stifle tears at this point. It sounds like something you would see in a movie, with the last cut of the scene slowly bringing the bracelet into focus just long enough for you to realize why he was wearing it.

It is all relative I suppose, but I think it's a reflection on a serious issue plaguing society, if you don't care about the guy, as a technical person you have to say it's a tragic waste of public resources to repeatedly admit someone to ER when they should in a treatment program.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#202

Post by krisives »

oliwarner wrote: post #198
krisives wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a really complicated issue without a clear solution and no benefit to whoever solves it. By comparison I think it would be easier to make a self driving car or automated robot that does most of what a heroin addict does. Sounds terrible don’t care I’m out of sympathy for addicts in society.

I think what is becoming clear now is that not all opiate addicts are recreational users. Many are victims of inappropriate prescriptions and lack of follow-up and supervision.

For how long though? Having watched it first hand you can make whatever excuse you want for the first use, bad boyfriend, pharma industry, etc.

My sister has been on heroin for probably 8 years now. She will call and ask for money and if anyone says no she spouts this same bullshit about it's not her fault etc. and she's an addict. We send her to rehab, she runs away, can't even tell you how many times I've seen it.

Her 4 kids are taken away from her she doesn't even attempt to visit them in any capacity.

Look close enough at a heroin addict you'll find a regular shitty person underneath it.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#203

Post by Diederich »

DanBC wrote: post #170
Diederich wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug users usually turn violent Citation needed.

It's well known that drug dependency is a relatively good predictor of violent behaviour. People think severe mental illness predicts violent behaviour, but substance misuse is far better predictor. Watch the video here: https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/917838820682489858?s...

Both videos threw errors in playback.

The initial claim was 'usually turn violent', compared to your 'relatively good predictor of violent behaviour'.

I've known quite a few people with drug dependency problems and very, very few of them were violent.

So, citation still needed.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#204

Post by krisives »

fapjacks wrote: post #189
krisives wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can chose to not use heroin and other drugs - like most of society had informed you - and there is infinite amount of data available to anyone looking.

Now, now. Are you implying everyone is always making decisions purely intellectually with no other inputs? People make stupid decisions for stupid reasons all the time. In fact most of the time. That doesn't make it any less of a choice.

It's as much of your choice to use a heroin needle as it is to buy an iPhone is my point.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#205

Post by krisives »

lostlogin wrote: post #191
krisives wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes the guy who brought up sources look stupid

Not at all. Seeing what the OP has seen allows a better evaluation. I wish more online groups put more weight on sources.

Says sources discredit his point then provides sources that do neither.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#206

Post by oliwarner »

krisives wrote: post #202
oliwarner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is becoming clear now is that not all opiate addicts are recreational users. Many are victims of inappropriate prescriptions and lack of follow-up and supervision.

For how long though? Having watched it first hand you can make whatever excuse you want for the first use, bad boyfriend, pharma industry, etc. My sister has been on heroin for probably 8 years now. She will call and ask for money and if anyone says no she spouts this same bullshit about it's not her fault etc. and she's an addict. We send her to rehab, she runs away, can't even tell you how many times I've seen it.…

And that stinks. For everybody involved. You can only do your best.

But it sounds like you're writing them all off, writing the problem off, as something that's just unavoidable, untreatable. It can be both avoided and treated, it just doesn't always work.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#207

Post by jrowley »

krisives wrote: post #200
jrowley wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said in my post, it's only a matter of time until you encounter it first hand, especially if you take a short stroll through select neighborhoods in most large cities. Its obvious you've thought about the issue but I urge you to engage with it by witnessing it first hand. Addicts are people too - they deserve compassion from society just as much as you or I do.

My sister is a heroin addict I've encountered enough =) Also I have lived in Salem, Oregon look up it's statistics. Just because my heart doesn't bleed for people who wouldn't do shit to help you doesn't mean I don't understand the problem.

Fair enough - sounds like we may irreconcilable ethical differences. Maybe I'll get more exposed to the issue and more jaded over time. Thanks for explaining your perspective.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#208

Post by lettergram »

dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

Our healthcare is commically not a capitalist one. You make a blanket claim that healthcare can't be regulated by capitalism.

I'd argue if the U.S. had a health care market closer to Iran or something it would actually be better. Like, I should be able to sell my organs if I want. I should be able to buy weed instead of opiods. And so on... Then look at all the medical doctors graduating. Their numbers haven't changed since the 90s, because then they make more money due to scarcity.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#209

Post by throwanem »

TaylorGood wrote: post #85
matwood wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how people move to something like heroin after being on pain meds and getting addicted, but who really just 'tries' heroin? At this point, the mix danger and addiction danger is well known and publicized. I'm asking, because I cannot mentally put it together, particularly if someone has life going in the right direction.

As someone posted below on his usage, his misunderstanding was thinking Heroin fell into same category of drugs "ok to try" .. but, it isn't just one trip. It's a shift chemically unless I'm mistaken.

I think it is, but how quickly it occurs seems to depend on the person. I've known people who tried heroin once or a couple of times and never touched it again - one such person once said she stopped when she did because she knew that after another time she wouldn't be able to stop. With others, it's one and done - instant addiction. I don't really have a metric, but the existence of the variation is interesting in its own right.

Terrifying stuff. I've had a run-in with it myself, when someone slipped me a cut pill of molly, in my younger or dancing-at-parties days lo these many years ago; luckily I had friends there who realized something was up and looked out for me, or almost missing a flight the next morning would no doubt have been far from the worst consequence. I've never had the urge to go back to that particular well, but what I remember of the experience makes it easy to understand why someone would; there is that about it which, while under its influence, makes it impossible for the world to touch one in any meaningful way. Of course, when not under its influence, the opposite is true and very emphatically so, which I think is in large part what keeps people going back even when they're as dedicated as they can be to the goal of kicking.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#210

Post by nickik »

dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

You argument that nobody decides to have cancer is true but it applies to tons of stuff. You don't decide that your car breaks down. You don't decide that a storm is coming. You don't decide the change in import controls for goods from China. There are literally millions of things that you don't decide.

The very reason we have capitalism is that we have dynamic system that reacts to feedback and finds or at least moves the system towards a new optimal point given the new circumstances.

If there is a operation that exists free market would make that operation as cheap as possible and weather it is your decision to need the operation or not, you will still get a very cheap operation. For the market is irrelevant why the demand exists, but it will attempt to satisfy that demand and we are all better for it.

So the problem with opioids is about demand.

People should trust doctors to give sound advice regarding their opioid consumption, as they do with many other things. The majority of people don't want to be addicted and are happy to comply with measures.

There are a couple problems, first, the doctors primary earn money by selling stuff thanks to the perverse system of intensives that the modern american health care system produces.

Second, there was a actual problem where doctors in the US, by themselves started to over-issue these drugs, and they still do. That is as much a cultural problem as it is anything else. This has to change.

Third, I think its pretty clear that the distribution and demographics about this issue tell a story that is hard to explain by a general 'evil capitalist' pushing pills on people. It is clear that some communities are dis-proportionally effected and that is a more deterministic factor then the price of the pills.

Fourth, if there were actually free markets people would buy high quality product that does not kill you. People who take it might be addicts but you can be high functioning and your chances of recovery are much better then with this disgusting stuff people are forced to consume because of government regulation.

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