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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not talking about digital goods.

Neither was I. For many years Netflix actually mailed DVDs (physical goods) to your home.

right, but I mean things that can't ever become digital. not media products, just physical goods.

and yeah I used to get netflix DVDs to my home. and hit blockbuster for many years before that. there was no possible good ending for blockbuster!

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#392
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way the returns on investing in making the mall a pleasurable place to hang out in the short term outweigh the costs, but if people depended on malls as part of their area's social fabric, I doubt they would be facing this kind of longer-term decline.

This really depends on which mall you go to. The Mall of America is not far off of Disney's Epcot center in terms of the amenities it provides. The Galleria in Houston is almost a city unto itself. I remember seeing a bridal party walking through it once, I'm guessing there was a chapel or function hall inside. A typical mall in Tampa, Florida, or Salem, NH has less charm, but those areas aren't working from a high b…

Yup. Mall of America literally has a zoo (Sea Life Minnesota Aquarium) and an indoor amusement park.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#393
post #228
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, that market has been taken over by Walmart. It is effectively the "one stop shop" that people visit weekly for everything from groceries to small furniture. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Walmart has had almost as much of a negative impact on malls as Amazon and its ilk have.

An average Walmart is nothing like the malls I'm talking about. Heck, Carrefour itself already provides everything Walmart does, minus maybe the Walmart money and vision centers. Imagine putting a Walmart inside of an average US mall. Now crank up the number of stores and activities to 11. That's how major malls in the UAE are like.

I wasn't meaning to imply that Walmart is "good", just that it would tend to suck the life out of similar ventures in the US. Its sort of like how Lowes and Home Depot effectively put Sears onto its last legs.

It isn't exactly that one is a substitute for the other, but one managed to effectively destroy the highest grossing businesses of the other.

Also, I've been in a mall in the US that effectively had a Walmart as an anchor. It was "interesting" and strangely it probably contributed to that mall's competitiveness in the area.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#394
post #282
post #187

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Yeah, but it really feels like they have gotten away from the original vision. I remember when malls had arcades (ok, and outdated concept in itself) and regular community events. But it seems like these don't produce enough revenue, so malls have optimized themselves into a revenue model that removes their natural appeal as a third place. I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that natu…

> (ok, and outdated concept in itself) Is it really though? I miss the arcade machines of old. I wonder if anyone has tried bringing some of that concept back...

There have been some attempts, I guess. Dave & Busters seems to do pretty well, but these seem to be targeted at adults and the games are nothing like the old days, IMO.

I feel like the arcade concept could potentially be brought back, but it would require some creative thinking.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#395
Big box chains and suburban shopping malls were doomed to fail. They built in a boom time and built in places expecting to draw in new development and residents from tens of miles away. But they based all their site decisions on an impractical urban development model (suburbs) that turns out to not work in reality, and they lost their drawing power to online retail. Smaller form-factor retailers are doing fine because they can easily go where the demand is and provide better service without making customers feel like cattle. The big box chains are realizing this and contracting to smaller stores more conveniently located to try to keep up with the market. They still have a price advantage and people are willing to walk or drive short distances to have goods now rather than wait a couple days for their Amazon Prime package. I hope the massive amount of equity tied up in the failing subsection can be transferred elsewhere though...

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#396
post #302

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I don't know that it is for online purchases. My wife is buying clothes and shoes off Amazon lately and we are on our third return for one pair of shoes because their size guide online doesn't correspond to what they send us at all. That's a 200% return rate on a single item, and that's only if we get the correct one shipped to us this time. Non commodity items have turned into a major crapshoot online. Online shoppi…

I buy on Amazon a lot and I don't think I return more than one or two things in a year, typically. Even buying shoes online (I usually use Zappos) I haven't returned that many.

Do you buy clothes or shoes? Ive never had to return toilet paper, but we got a pair of boots that were a different size from the listing when they arrived

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#397

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

I'm not going to defend malls, but clearly there needs to be some kind of market place where people can encounter things they don't expect. We are already experiencing a media landscape with a filter bubble. Views become more narrow and extreme. You are going to need to have a place where you see things you think you wouldn't buy or want, otherwise your experience of world is going to get more narrow.

Isn't a walkable commerce area suitable? I've lost count of the number of stores I've wandered into, mostly because I live in one of the most walkable parts of the country.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. Sounds like you you're mistaking "wealthy people" for "the cognitive elite"! The shopping behaviors you're describing are just those of people who have either the time or capital to spend trying to get marginally better stuff. > [...…

Also, I didn't comment on it but the idea that engineers are smarter than other people in the first place sounds like a wildly unfounded assumption

I think we're crossing signals WRT I'm talking about engineers shopping like the guy using a parametric search and examining some data sheets to find the correct resistor for a circuit, vs you're thinking I'm talking about engineer as a proxy name for well paid individual, which is admittedly usually true. There is a moderately high minimum required cognitive level to successfully use search interfaces and study what the component data sheets say, and do not say, about a device, vs the requirements of the design, combined with a bit of buyer beware ("hey, it says right here on page 7 of the engineering data sheet that this little surface mount resistors maximum voltage rating is 200 volts so using it as a bleeder resistor in a switching power supply is kinda all your fault...")

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#399
post #368

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SPOILER WARNING: stranger things season 1 The reason why free range parenting has gone down so much can be seen in the series. There was a believable scene in which one kid bullied another into taking an almost certainly fatal jump into the quarry, and was only saved by paranormal means. A world in which more free-range parenting is the norm inherently implies a world in which kids more often pay the consequences of…

> There was a believable scene in which one kid bullied another into taking an almost certainly fatal jump into the quarry, and was only saved by paranormal means. I watched it last night so it's fresh in my mind. It was paranormal events that setup this scene and made the bully go to such extremes to begin with. It was also one of the worst, least believable scenes in the series. The fact that he was so willing to j…

It was believable to me because they had shown adults talking about people that had bragged to have jumped from there. I remember as a kid thinking that everything others bragged about was true and I was just lame. I totally see him thinking it would be no more dangerous than jumping from a bridge, just a bit scarier.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#400
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is extremely good at that, and they have a strong financial motivation to do so. I'll agree with and extend your remarks on a tangent that at one point in human history literacy was nice but not required to participate in the economy. Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic particip…

> Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. Sounds like you you're mistaking "wealthy people" for "the cognitive elite"! The shopping behaviors you're describing are just those of people who have either the time or capital to spend trying to get marginally better stuff. > [...…

> Sounds like you you're mistaking "wealthy people" for "the cognitive elite"! The shopping behaviors you're describing are just those of people who have either the time or capital to spend trying to get marginally better stuff.

This is a pretty odd assumption. Why do you assume that doing your research means valuing money _less_? If anything, I would assume the opposite. I grew up lower middle class with a scholarship to a school full of upper class kids, and doing my research usually meant getting the best value for my money : when you have lots of money, it's often easier to just throw a bunch of money at the most commonly purchased product perceived as luxury instead of spending your time doing research on which provides the best value.

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