America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#331

Post by ghaff » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #310

VLM wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems with downtowns, in a tiny city, giant city, whatever. First of all downtown already has a purpose which is to extract middle class home equity, run it thru the retail and restaurant wringer where 95% of businesses fail in the first two years or whatever. Its easy for the city to run downtown; the city doesn't have to worry about parking, for example, because those businesses are designed to fai…

I don't know where you are getting the idea that people are congregating around interstate exits now other than your personal experience. Car ownership has been trending down in the US for a few years and the urban population as a percentage of total population has also been growing for a long time.

Most of the “urban” growth is in suburbs though. According to the census bureau myself and my two neighbors on a collective 70 acres of land live in an urban area. True urban core growth is mostly in a small number of places and a narrow demographic.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#332

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

gbacon wrote: post #197

sanderjd wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a sociologist, but my feeling is that malls are just a last resort place for young people to socialize that is unstructured and free of charge. That is: there isn't really anywhere else to go be with your friends without paying for the privilege, that isn't organized by adults (like school sports or church groups for instance). When I was growing up, we had the mall and we had parking lots, and the latter was…

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

SPOILER WARNING: stranger things season 1

The reason why free range parenting has gone down so much can be seen in the series.

There was a believable scene in which one kid bullied another into taking an almost certainly fatal jump into the quarry, and was only saved by paranormal means.

A world in which more free-range parenting is the norm inherently implies a world in which kids more often pay the consequences of their actions, which can be death or maiming.

We, as a society, do not seem to have a stomach for this, to the point where free-range parenting has been equated with neglect.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#333

Post by smnrchrds » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #289

3pt14159 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Americans are too soft. I live in Toronto and it's wonderful to have nice streets that you can walk and bike on, even at ±30C.

I thought Toronto was part of North America... Also, doesn't Montreal have the Underground City specifically for staying out of the cold in the winter?

Northern Americans?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#334

Post by hkmurakami » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC

tikhonj wrote: post #236

ericseppanen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Stanford Shopping Center in the satellite view sometime: a bunch of rectangles surrounded by an ocean of surface parking. It's much more like a conventional mall than a downtown: It's effectively walled off from the rest of the neighbordood. You're expected to go there by driving your car, and it's isolated by its massive parking lots so nobody would consider walking in or out a pleasant experience.

This is why I end up on University St all the time and almost never go to Stanford Shopping Center even though it's a bit closer, pleasant and I like a few of the restaurants/cafes. What I would really like is for a few blocks of University to become pedestrian-only with lots of outdoor seating for its cafes and restaurants. (The same goes for other downtown areas in the South Bay, like Santa Cruz in Menlo Park.) It'…

Something like Forest or Hamilton Ave becoming pedestrian only would be great.

That being said, University Ave becoming increasingly "corporate blasé" in its selection of restaurants (basically great for a business meeting and little else) is sad to see.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#335

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #297

emodendroket wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.

Things I won’t buy without trying on or looking at in person, unlesss as a last resort: - Wetsuits - Ski gear - Shoes - Bikes

I think the key point here is that that set is probably small for most people and also differs from person to person. Someone else might insist on trying their keyboard but be happy to buy a bike online. And that's before we take into account people trying out goods in-store and then buying them online.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#336

Post by duderific » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

headcanon wrote: post #249

The free market in action. Retail outlets are simply not equipped to handle the tastes of the modern consumer. It is an industry that saw huge growth in the 80's and 90's and has not been able to keep up with technology. As the segment of the population that still exclusively shops brick-and-mortar ages, unless these businesses can evolve and modernize they will continue to fail. Tough break, but its ultimately bette…

> Retail jobs are some of the worst ones to have too True, but they are also some of the only jobs nowadays that are available to people without college degrees, or people who have effectively aged out of the white collar or blue collar workforce, but still need to generate some sort of income. Notice how many retail clerks nowadays are in the 55+ set.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#337

Post by rangersanger » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

heimidal wrote: post #190

itswhateverman2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's convenient when the weather is bad. That still doesn't make malls a staple of social activity, which was the point I was arguing against.

In some parts of the US, the weather is bad for half of the year. In those places, malls are bustling with activity every weekend. I think this is a regional thing; in warmer climates, outdoor shopping centers with community-centric areas have been all the rage for years.

In those places some malls are bustling with activity every weekend, others are shuttering. One of the most popular malls in Milwaukee, Wisconsin is in fact an outdoor "town center," a nomenclature I take issue with. https://www.bayshoretowncenter.com/

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#338

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

katastic wrote: post #208

pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

>However, I do feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs over it. I'm not aware of anyone there--except maybe... jewelers?--that enjoy long-term careers at a mall. It's like an entire parking lot full of McDonalds. They'll find new jobs. Everyone at Circuit City managed to move. And I'm in no way bashing retail or food worker. I used to tell people I did a "five year tour of duty at Sam's Clubs and I've got t…

>The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers.

No, the 'real reason' has nothing to do with shopping. The article touched on the actual problem. It is way too easy to get into billions of dollars in debt. If you own mall real estate, who do you want at your mall.

Small businesses that attract customers, but have to pay you with money they earn.

Or

Large chains that earn earn billions by playing leveraged debt games, and will pay stupidly high rates for rent, no customers required.

Malls will survive just fine, the moment rents and property prices are back in touch with reality.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#339

Post by itswhateverman2 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

heimidal wrote: post #190

itswhateverman2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's convenient when the weather is bad. That still doesn't make malls a staple of social activity, which was the point I was arguing against.

In some parts of the US, the weather is bad for half of the year. In those places, malls are bustling with activity every weekend. I think this is a regional thing; in warmer climates, outdoor shopping centers with community-centric areas have been all the rage for years.

"Bustling with activity" yes, shoppers. I'm arguing against the idea that malls are social centers. They are not, and when they are it is because there are no other options. Nobody wants to spend time at the mall.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#340

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #329

Now all of a sudden, I want to go to America just to see how terrible and horrible the shopping malls are. I'm from Australia which is full of them (though we call them "shopping centres"). And they seem very pleasant to me. They are convenient for many kinds of shopping. I didn't hang out there as a teenager in the '90s, but others from my school did. Since then they have become more pleasant for socialising -- thou…

In general the malls aren't horrible. Since you are from AUS, the first thing you'd notice, is there are twice as many stores/sq ft of space per capita.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/marc-squares.png?...

The big problem with this is AUS GDP is about $47k per person. US GDP is 57k. So for only $10,000 more earned per person, we have double the retail space. This can't possibly work long term. US retail is in bad shape because of terrible monetary policy.