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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#321

Post by kiliantics »

gbacon wrote: post #197
sanderjd wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a sociologist, but my feeling is that malls are just a last resort place for young people to socialize that is unstructured and free of charge. That is: there isn't really anywhere else to go be with your friends without paying for the privilege, that isn't organized by adults (like school sports or church groups for instance). When I was growing up, we had the mall and we had parking lots, and the latter was…

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

Definitely an interesting point that children have less freedom today. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that this is what's causing the "safe space mentality". The narrator says the good old days of free range parenting led children to be more prone to questioning authority, which is healthy. If anything, you could argue that young people's assertion of their right to "safe spaces" is a form of rebellion in itself.

The video comes from FEE though, so it's obviously got a political bias behind it that explains it's opposition to safe spaces. People on the more socially conservative end of the spectrum don't seem to understand safe spaces and how they are actually a rejection of authority, rather than an appeal to authority. The notion of authority used is simply more subtle.

Some marginalised groups have made a very valid claim that there is a built-in hierarchy in many social norms that constitute acceptable behaviour in mainstream society. And that they tend to be on the shittier end of the deal in that hierarchy. Therefore, rather than acquiesce to the ordinary way of doing things and just accepting the negative effects of living in a world that doesn't value them as it does others, they have decided to carve out a space where they can assert their own version of what should be culturally acceptable. And they ask that others respect their desire for such a space and not enter it without also changing their behaviour and rejecting the toxic standard practices.

It's quite simple, it's like the cultural equivalent of libertarians trying to carve out a piece of land where they can keep the government out and live in their hyper-capitalist utopias. It's inherently anti-authoritarian. Anyone who goes into a safe space is voluntarily choosing to abide by its standards, no one is forcing them to.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#322

Post by ghaff »

logfromblammo wrote: post #167
craftyguy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.

Especially since a lot of malls intentionally made themselves unfriendly to students in high school and college in order to cater more to young families and affluent people. They are hoist on their own petard, because as it turns out, the young families chose the big box stores to save money, and the affluent people are not numerous enough or consumerist enough to support more than one mall in their town. That mall g…

You touch on one of the key points toward the end. Many of the traditional anchor stores are dead or dying and there are very few newer candidates healthy enough to take their place.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#323

Post by crankylinuxuser »

replicatorblog wrote: post #295
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s. I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill. There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you…

In my town (Southern NH) the local Simon Mall actually solicits clubs. My wife's "Mom's Club" is offered freebies to host events there. E.g. they'll comp a photo package with Santa in the winter knowing that it'll get 30 middle-class moms in and shopping.

I wish our local mall would do that. I've asked, and they just flatly say no. They're already suffering pretty bad with quite a few storefronts abandoned. I think our paper said something like 20% are empty.

It'd only be a small amount of electricity used, and a bit of janitors they already have. They could pull in a few non-profit groups doing fun stuff (game club, moms club as you said, techie club, etc.) and drum up foot traffic and business. But given the doom-and-gloom article after article, I'm guessing they're looking for as many ways to cut costs as possible.

I figure our mall has a few years left. There's enough shops like "Lidz", candy stores, some weird smelly pet store, the usual 16-21 girly clothing stores, the goth store (spencers), a Target, and a few others. But the life's certainly being drained out step by step.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#324

Post by ChickeNES »

pm90 wrote: post #282
_ea1k wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but it really feels like they have gotten away from the original vision. I remember when malls had arcades (ok, and outdated concept in itself) and regular community events. But it seems like these don't produce enough revenue, so malls have optimized themselves into a revenue model that removes their natural appeal as a third place. I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that natu…

> (ok, and outdated concept in itself) Is it really though? I miss the arcade machines of old. I wonder if anyone has tried bringing some of that concept back...

People have, there are many "barcades" in large cities around the US. As the name suggests they combine alcohol, food, and arcade/pinball machines (depending on the location I've seen free to play and token machines)

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#325

Post by majormajor »

ewheeler wrote: post #13

The 'Retail jobs growth by state' chart in this article (approx 2/3 down the page) is lovely: one square line chart for each US state, positioned roughly according to geography, all equal in size. I find it very easy to grok compared to choropleth maps and similar charts that attempt to stay true to geography. Unlike other non-map presentations of US state data, this layout preserves ability to spot regional similari…

The graph is wonderful and makes me tune out most of the rest of the article, because the picture in the graph is the same picture you see everywhere: certain areas are booming (the south, Texas, the coastal parts of the west coast), others are slowly declining.

What's unique to retail about that graph?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#326

Post by emodendroket »

lovich wrote: post #302
emodendroket wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One-in-ten is a pretty high rate of returns.

I don't know that it is for online purchases. My wife is buying clothes and shoes off Amazon lately and we are on our third return for one pair of shoes because their size guide online doesn't correspond to what they send us at all. That's a 200% return rate on a single item, and that's only if we get the correct one shipped to us this time. Non commodity items have turned into a major crapshoot online. Online shoppi…

I buy on Amazon a lot and I don't think I return more than one or two things in a year, typically. Even buying shoes online (I usually use Zappos) I haven't returned that many.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#327

Post by emodendroket »

Floegipoky wrote: post #287
emodendroket wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furniture is probably, next to a house and a car, among the most expensive things most people will purchase. And frankly I'm sure a lot of people just buy whatever guitar anyway, especially thinking back to the never-used one I used to have.

>> And frankly I'm sure a lot of people just buy whatever guitar anyway, especially thinking back to the never-used one I used to have Surely you recognize that your mindset while purchasing that guitar was different than that of a serious musician investing a substantial sum in an instrument they'll play for thousands of hours.

Yes, my (well, my dad's, actually) mindset was different, but what percentage of people buying a musical instrument are actually serious musicians?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#328

Post by mschuster91 »

lurker456 wrote: post #301
mschuster91 wrote: post #174

> The root cause is that many of these long-standing chains are overloaded with debt—often from leveraged buyouts led by private equity firms. There are billions in borrowings on the balance sheets of troubled retailers, and sustaining that load is only going to become harder—even for healthy chains. Oooh, I am so happy if this really happens. The entire financial industry that makes "profits" from loading purchased…

The ones who organize these deals have already taken the money and are long gone. The ones holding the bag after it collapses are the employees, suppliers and institutional investors.

Of course - what happened, happened. But when banks recognize that it is not in their interest to give loans to holdings to purchase companies in order to get loans on them simply because eventually when the loans on the companies default the banks are on the hook again, they will not loan them money any more.

That's the inherent beauty of interconnected and sold loans - no one will be left spared when they eventually default.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#329

Post by adrianratnapala »

Now all of a sudden, I want to go to America just to see how terrible and horrible the shopping malls are.

I'm from Australia which is full of them (though we call them "shopping centres"). And they seem very pleasant to me. They are convenient for many kinds of shopping. I didn't hang out there as a teenager in the '90s, but others from my school did.

Since then they have become more pleasant for socialising -- though perhaps more upmarket and less teenager friendly. They have proper restaurants as well as the old food courts. And my mother's favourite cafe is at a shopping mall -- and it is reallyp excellent.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#330

Post by s73ver_ »

cenazoic wrote: post #250
s73ver_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, growing up in the midwest, there is a museum dedicated to the area. It's on Main Street in the biggest town in the area. It's basement, which is now just used for storage, was part of an entire underground Main Street. You can still see the storefronts with the big windows and such down there. Apparently it stretched along most of downtown, mirroring the above.

This sounds fascinating - where is this, if you don't mind me asking?

Aberdeen, South Dakota. The Dacotah Prairie Museum. http://brown.sd.us/dacotah-prairie-museum/home

Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of documentation about it. I might have to bug them about it when I go home for the holidays.

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