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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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201–210 of 406 posts

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#201

This is going to be brutal over the coming decade. "The most recent government statistics show that salespeople and cashiers in the industry total 8 million." Contrast that with 70k coal workers. Imagine the devastation in the coal belt spreading to suburbs all over mid America.

Fair point, but the comparison is a bit uneven - you are comparing one industry's post-devastation numbers with another's pre-devastation numbers. Across the rust belt, just a few decades ago, there were many times more coal workers than 70k. If you go back to 1923 there were 883k.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.

And return them just as quickly. My wife will go through 4-5 online orders to find clothing that fits as advertised, returning a majority of each purchase. Hard for anyone but Amazon to maintain that kind of return throughput.

Is that typical behavior though? I have to imagine no. Personally I can hardly be bothered to return defective merchandise

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#203

Retail stores don't sell what I want. Their inventory has become too limited. After the dot com bust/mini recession, most department stores stopped stocking clothes in my size so I buy much of it online. I frequently try to hold out and find some electronic item or replacement part in local stores. I almost always fail and resort to Amazon. I'm currently looking for a cheap Bissel vacuum that is available on Amazon.…

It’s funny that I work next to a mall and don’t mind shopping in it. Actually I would prefer it.

Problem is, I’m a gorilla... not skinny enough to be “tall” and not fat enough to be “big”, and there is not one store out of 250 that sell size 14 shoes, or a shirt with a size 19 neck that doesn’t look like a parachute, or a 52 long jacket.

I see it in other areas. If you walk through Lord and Taylor or Macy’s, there’s a whole floor of petite women’s clothing. I look on the mall and see lots of bigger, taller or bustier women, all of whom are wearing clothes — but not from Macy’s!

When you focus on the average consumer exclusively, you miss a lot of people!

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#204
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon, Facebook, Google, AirBnB, Uber, Match, etcetera are all middlemen. They provide an interface between parties who wish to exchange information, goods, services, and time. The nature of middle-people businesses is changing, but they're not going away.

Google used to provide rare value: large scale of organization of information. They also philanthropically raised standards f the web: way better mail service, map service.

They raised the standards, but you're delusional if you think they did it philanthropically. They did it because they thought they could get more info to sell ads.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#205
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At our local mall, there's a sign warning that under 18 aren't allowed without adults. They also removed much of what would attract teens and that age group. And many of the "older person stores" are ridiculously priced. Amazon, Walmart online, Aliexpress, and others are cheaper. Malls are full of expensive stuff, not very good stuff, and caters to nobody in particular. I know for us, it's because "Payless Shoes" tha…

I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.

Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s.

I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill.

There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you could just chill and hang out, except for free. But there were usually age limits so you didn't hurt little ones. And around this was always a common area. Lots of tables, food places, coffee shop or 2.

Clubs and nonprofits would meet here - it was a huge commons area. I remember fondly playing chess on chess club nights. Played some pretty awesome pros there.

And the companies there.. You had Sears, Estee Lauder, Nordstrom, and all those big name box stores. And then you'd have all sorts of smaller stores scattered, with rarely ever any room left over (1-2 empty plots due to eventual turnover). But there was something for everyone. Maybe it was a candy store, or a toy store, or specialty thing.

That's all changed.

Arcades are gone. Yeah, there's one 35 miles away from me, in the next city over. The jungle gyms and playgrounds were deemed dangerous and unsupervised, so they were decommissioned. You know, for "safety". And those tables? Yeah, those only encourage bums and lazy people to congregate, so they're right out.

And those clubs? Yeah, they need to pay rent if they want to have a group, so they too were summarily kicked out (Well.. it is private property :/ ). And now with less people, those food vendors started closing. That coffee shop had not enough customers and moved/closed. The rest of the food vendors (whom you've never heard of), now started skimping hard and jacking the prices.

And that's not to add in the compounding issues with online stores. A single online store can house millions of products. No real retailer can do that. So, you see the big box stores being squeezed by both the malls running people out, higher prices than online, and better selection than online. So, they end up closing and going bankrupt. It's not any one fault here, but a compound effect that set these things in motion.

For me, its that single shoe place. I make a point to park at the closest place to get in, try on shoes, and get out. There's nothing else here for me. And clothing is really the last bastion of something you really should be in person for - cause sending back stuff sucks.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.

And return them just as quickly. My wife will go through 4-5 online orders to find clothing that fits as advertised, returning a majority of each purchase. Hard for anyone but Amazon to maintain that kind of return throughput.

I learned recently that even Amazon is banning people for returns. My first thought was that they must have returned a ton of products, but after a quick "banned from amazon" search online it showed that many people with a return rate as low as 9% have been banned. Which doesn't seem like a lot especially if we're talking about clothing. Here's one example, but there's plenty more if you do a quick search:

http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/21/amazon-bans-customer-for-retu...

Apparently the cut-off lies somewhere around 10%, they ban you for life though.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#208

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

>However, I do feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs over it.

I'm not aware of anyone there--except maybe... jewelers?--that enjoy long-term careers at a mall. It's like an entire parking lot full of McDonalds. They'll find new jobs. Everyone at Circuit City managed to move.

And I'm in no way bashing retail or food worker. I used to tell people I did a "five year tour of duty at Sam's Clubs and I've got the [five year] medal to prove it." My point is that those jobs are both 1) crap working conditions and pay. and 2) easily transferable to comparable jobs at other employers.

Circuit City disappeared and the world moved on. K-Mart is still around but everyone who values their careers has already jumped ship. Block Buster is gone and the world keeps ticking. Mall store employees will continue on.

The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers. We are definitely becoming more hermit-like as a society, but there's got to be "something" most non-hermits enjoy. The whole purpose of the Mall is a bunch of stores that add value to each other by being near each other. "I bring Dad for a lawn mower, and the kids hit the arcade." (Man, I miss finding quarters and taking them to the arcades.) So my point here is, single stores still exist, so clearly it's not "stores in general" going out, but more "the stores malls want" people care less about.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#209

in general, it is difficult for me to separate a reasonable concern borne of the knowledge that a thriving economy is important from a sense that, so far, the big retail chains that are closing many locations sell junk that i both do not want and think is largely superfluous anyway. Anyone got a reasonable way to synthesize those competing thoughts?

I think the America that will result from this die-off is a better place. Less suburban sprawl. Less giant eyesore big-box stores that no one enjoys spending time in. More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews. But I think there will be significant, very painful collateral damage to people during this transition and I've very sympathetic to people hit by the job losse…

> Less giant eyesore big-box stores that no one enjoys spending time in.

Instead, we'll have giant eyesore big-box empty buildings on oversized empty parking lots littering the land that nobody wants, and few who can afford to tear down and replace.

And what will they replace them with? New houses or apartments or condos few can afford? Maybe office space?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#210
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.

Sure, to a degree, but these are different. And people that really care about clothes and/or furniture probably don't buy them sight unseen. For a lot of people, any good couch or shirt is probably good enough. But a guitar needs to be right for the individual. The difference between the right and wrong guitar can be significant, and is also something that will bother you every day.

Furniture is probably, next to a house and a car, among the most expensive things most people will purchase. And frankly I'm sure a lot of people just buy whatever guitar anyway, especially thinking back to the never-used one I used to have.
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