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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#311

Post by com2kid »

munificent wrote: post #75
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

in general, it is difficult for me to separate a reasonable concern borne of the knowledge that a thriving economy is important from a sense that, so far, the big retail chains that are closing many locations sell junk that i both do not want and think is largely superfluous anyway. Anyone got a reasonable way to synthesize those competing thoughts?

I think the America that will result from this die-off is a better place. Less suburban sprawl. Less giant eyesore big-box stores that no one enjoys spending time in. More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews. But I think there will be significant, very painful collateral damage to people during this transition and I've very sympathetic to people hit by the job losse…

> More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews.

And then get shipped a knock-off product that doesn't do what the customer needs.

Or spending hours sorting through endlessly scrolling pages of choices, taking hours longer than just walking down store aisle.

Online shopping has some benefits, and also some serious drawbacks.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#312

Post by majormajor »

sologoub wrote: post #139
Cidan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's make towns have downtowns, with beautiful brick roads, scenic ponds with some ducks, perhaps a waterfall, some nice cafes, a lawn with benches, some parks, some nature, trees, live music, a library and museums. You would think! I live in Santa Monica, California, and we have exactly that in our downtown area. The retail shop turnover is insane -- a large amount of shops come and go from the area, despite the…

Third street promenade is a disaster area from the perspective you describe. It's a classical tourist funnel designed to extract the most from them. As noted in another comment, Main St. is a bit better with some ok food, bars and coffee shops, but the retail side doesn't offer much. Most likely out of sheer need for survival due to super expensive lease rates, most retail is oriented towards tourists, with a little…

It's a tourist trap mall that looks like a downtown complete with a fair bit of mixed use residential+retail+commercial dense-ish developments.

The point that people overlook there is that the aesthetics—indoor mall vs outdoor pedestrian-friendly throughway through a central part of a town—don't actually matter nearly as much as thought, since if you went at 10AM on a Thursday you'd think it was just a nice little downtown with a surprisingly high amount of retail in a small town next to LA.

And there are definitely good cafes, parks, and a library, yet all you're seeing here is still just a lot of people complaining about it. So maybe those aren't the critical components the OP seems to think they are.

There's no reason you couldn't turn the space and structure of a stereotypical 80s mall into a different sort of organizing space, without a whole "we need traditional looking downtowns" push.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#313

Post by jacobolus »

fsloth wrote: post #261
gbacon wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).

I would guess that even in northern Europe there has probably been a substantial reduction of kids’ roaming distance and time spent unsupervised compared to 2 or 3 generations ago. This seems to be a worldwide trend (if not to the same extent in every place).

In the US one of the big problems is a culture of legal liability for every possible thing, and a general culture of fearfulness, excuse-making, and ass-covering instead of allowing moderate informed risks and dealing responsibly with the consequences. If you have too steep a slide, some kid is going to fall off and the parents will sue and bankrupt your town. If you let kids ride the bus by themselves, 1 kid in a million is going to get kidnapped and the parents will sue. Etc.

But there are surely other contributing factors: more families with 2 working parents (and more single parents) and in general less adults “hanging out” with an eye on their neighborhoods, a general degradation of community relationships and civic institutions, smaller family sizes (it’s much easier to chaperone 1 kid than 6), more middle-class angst about maximizing children’s future earning potential, more media attention on rare tragedies, communication improvements leading to less spontaneous social gatherings and more virtual socialization, increasing reliance on car transport and inaccessibility of unsupervised play spaces (especially undeveloped land), etc.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#314

Post by usrusr »

Fricken wrote: post #138
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've, ironically, had the best luck lately with the small shops in the airports. They're much more willing to let you test their top-of-the-line headphones than any big box retailer. Yes, to me, it is worth the slight price premium to reward that convenience.

I guess when people walk into an airport shop looking for headphones, they aren't just window shopping, they absolutely intend to buy a pair because they need it for the flight.

That could quickly change once people get fully accustomed to in-flight wireless: browse the web for a shortlist on the first leg, feign interest at the stopover shop, price-compare and commit on the connecting flight.

The logical consequence would be manufacturer stalls replacing shops in the waiting areas (like a permanent trade fair) and Amazon adding pick-up warehouses to the exits.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#315

Post by telchar »

ForRealsies wrote: post #299
fsloth wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).

What is a homogeneous culture, Trebek.

Forgive me, but it seems that you're taking a common argument (X policy that works in Scandinavia won't work in the US because the US isn't homogeneous) and extending it to some sort of xenophobic dog-whistle (i.e. kids in the US can't roam because the US isn't homogeneous). Is there a more charitable way to interpret your comment?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#316

Post by [deleted] »

sanderjd wrote: post #125
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

I'm not a sociologist, but my feeling is that malls are just a last resort place for young people to socialize that is unstructured and free of charge. That is: there isn't really anywhere else to go be with your friends without paying for the privilege, that isn't organized by adults (like school sports or church groups for instance). When I was growing up, we had the mall and we had parking lots, and the latter was…

[deleted]

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#317

Post by itswhateverman2 »

brandonmenc wrote: post #153
itswhateverman2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

> A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc. Sounds great, until it snows.

So you just don't go outside when it snows? Snow does not stop me from running errands to any other regular store that has an outdoor entrance. I don't understand how this is an argument.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#318

Post by coreymayo »

southphillyman wrote: post #246
StevePerkins wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1: Buckhead is an affluent residential neighborhood, that turned into a startup hub and investment banker district in a couple of decades... but hasn't changed the "residential neighborhood" infrastructure. There are 24/7 traffic issues even when Lenox is closed. #2: The Atlanta metro had about two-dozen thriving malls a couple of decades ago. Today there's, what? Lenox/Phipps, Perimeter, maybe Cumberland (?). Mall…

Just curious ...what are the "pre Ray Lewis" days? He never played in Atlanta and isn't from there....

http://www.ajc.com/news/ray-lewis-atlanta-legacy-not-storied...

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#319

Post by dragonwriter »

fsloth wrote: post #261
gbacon wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).

We in the US didn't a few decades ago, either. Politicians and the media (with different motivations) deliberately creating false impressions of increasing risks mostly did that in.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#320

Post by dragonwriter »

ForRealsies wrote: post #299
fsloth wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).

What is a homogeneous culture, Trebek.

The US hasn't become substantially less homogenous in the last few decades, so that's not it.
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