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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#291

Post by VLM »

pm90 wrote: post #278
VLM wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mall security is what is unsustainable. I'm old by HN standards gen-X and I grew up with mall security hating me. Now mall security has under 18 kids arrested, which is worse. The point is for decades of formative years "the mall is that place where they hate me because of who I am". So its understandable that now that I'm in their prime demographic (older, financially well off) that I have no interest in going there…

I think you make a lot of good points. Not having grown up in the US, I don't have an immediate aversion towards malls. And as a guy who loves fashion, malls offer me a way to checkout a whole bunch of different styles, which is worth the slightly higher prices (at least for me anyways). Besides, they do have sales when the prices are somewhat better. But even I have embraced online stores. Every major fashion brand…

"provide some kind of experience"

There's the food court.

Also see the constraint on "mom is stuck with the kids" to this day even in 2017 etc. So a movie theater is a hard sell if mom has the baby in the stroller.

Of course going to the mall implies having money and a car, which means the library is accessible, so having story time at the mall merely replicates a service that's barely getting by somewhere else; better off just driving to the library or whatever rather than imitating it and splitting the participants such that possibly neither can be a success.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#292

Post by replicatorblog »

tspike wrote: post #268
taway_1212 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just that the things you want don't translate into a good return on investment for the owners and so they don't get implemented. (i.e. customers would like them, but it would not translate into a increase in shopping large enough to actually justify the investment from the owner's point of view). My wider (and a bit tangential/ranty) theory is that the most tacky, tasteless and lacking self-control custo…

There's no way the returns on investing in making the mall a pleasurable place to hang out in the short term outweigh the costs, but if people depended on malls as part of their area's social fabric, I doubt they would be facing this kind of longer-term decline.

This really depends on which mall you go to. The Mall of America is not far off of Disney's Epcot center in terms of the amenities it provides. The Galleria in Houston is almost a city unto itself. I remember seeing a bridal party walking through it once, I'm guessing there was a chapel or function hall inside. A typical mall in Tampa, Florida, or Salem, NH has less charm, but those areas aren't working from a high base to begin with.

In dense urban areas, malls tend towards the high end and can be quite nice. The Shops at Copley Place in Boston is fairly high end in terms of shops and the architecture is nice. The Westfield in SF is nice in my recollection.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#293

Post by metalliqaz »

adameast9000 wrote: post #281

Im curious as to what the response will be from regulators when these loans start to mature. I'm assuming none of these companies are 'too big to fail', and will be allowed to fall apart. That's the big difference between 2008 and now I think. Will anyone want the assets of Macy's, Kohl's, etc. once commercial retail collapses? It's going to be a real disaster I think, and unfortunately the hardest hit will be the po…

Republicans will help them get by long enough to become the Democrats' problem.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#294

Post by mrtron »

metalliqaz wrote: post #289
3pt14159 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Americans are too soft. I live in Toronto and it's wonderful to have nice streets that you can walk and bike on, even at ±30C.

I thought Toronto was part of North America... Also, doesn't Montreal have the Underground City specifically for staying out of the cold in the winter?

Toronto also has a large underground section downtown.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#295

Post by replicatorblog »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #205
_ea1k wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.

Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s. I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill. There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you…

In my town (Southern NH) the local Simon Mall actually solicits clubs. My wife's "Mom's Club" is offered freebies to host events there. E.g. they'll comp a photo package with Santa in the winter knowing that it'll get 30 middle-class moms in and shopping.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#296

Post by wahern »

tspike wrote: post #268
taway_1212 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just that the things you want don't translate into a good return on investment for the owners and so they don't get implemented. (i.e. customers would like them, but it would not translate into a increase in shopping large enough to actually justify the investment from the owner's point of view). My wider (and a bit tangential/ranty) theory is that the most tacky, tasteless and lacking self-control custo…

There's no way the returns on investing in making the mall a pleasurable place to hang out in the short term outweigh the costs, but if people depended on malls as part of their area's social fabric, I doubt they would be facing this kind of longer-term decline.

People do depend on malls as part of their area's social fabric. That's more true today than when Mall Rats was filmed, even though it's less cool now. It's the social fabric itself, not just the malls, which is disintegrating. Suburbia was never economically sustainable.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#297

Post by bamboozled »

emodendroket wrote: post #88
fhood wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you 95%. But 5% of me recognizes that certain items require a test run before purchase. In my case those would be Audio equipment, instruments and tennis rackets. None of those can be confidently purchased solely on the impressions of others.

You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.

Things I won’t buy without trying on or looking at in person, unlesss as a last resort:

- Wetsuits - Ski gear - Shoes - Bikes

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#298

Post by sanderjd »

Hextinium wrote: post #285
sanderjd wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a sociologist, but my feeling is that malls are just a last resort place for young people to socialize that is unstructured and free of charge. That is: there isn't really anywhere else to go be with your friends without paying for the privilege, that isn't organized by adults (like school sports or church groups for instance). When I was growing up, we had the mall and we had parking lots, and the latter was…

As a person that just entered college and out of that time period, mall didnt do it for me because they are barren of things to do. There is nothing but things to buy and nothing of actual interest. I would rather go to a friends house and play games or watch a move at the theater than go to a mall because there is nothing there. The times when I went to a mall was because there was an arcade there that we would hang…

Yeah I should have used past tense. I don't think malls are cutting it now at all. But the "thing to do" there when I was young was to just with your friends without needing to spend any money, without any parents around, and in a busy enough place that you could get lost in the shuffle. Hanging out at a friend's house involves parents and going to the movies is expensive.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#299

Post by ForRealsies »

fsloth wrote: post #261
gbacon wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).

What is a homogeneous culture, Trebek.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#300

Post by technophate »

cenazoic wrote: post #250
s73ver_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, growing up in the midwest, there is a museum dedicated to the area. It's on Main Street in the biggest town in the area. It's basement, which is now just used for storage, was part of an entire underground Main Street. You can still see the storefronts with the big windows and such down there. Apparently it stretched along most of downtown, mirroring the above.

This sounds fascinating - where is this, if you don't mind me asking?

Sounds a lot like Underground Atlanta - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Atlanta
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