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Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

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Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#111

Post by turc1656 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #49

I wonder if these kinds of stories will prompt real political will for things like single payer healthcare or a real social safety net.

A "real" social safety net? Is that a joke? As though we already don't have tons of social programs? Sure, the US might not be as insanely generous as some European nations, but the US has medicare, medicaid, food stamps (SNAP), social security, welfare (SSI), disability, housing assistance, CHIP, WIC, ACA subsidies, section 8 housing assistance, home energy assistance, and probably even more I can't think of or don't even know about. The US spends more than $2.3 trillion every year on those programs combined, which comes out to around $7,000 for each and every person in the US (around 330M). That's an absolutely mind blowing number.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#112

Post by sandworm101 »

This isn't an intergenerational issue. Old people (65+) have something beyond 95% of the money in this world. Todays seniors, as a group, are the most wealthy ever. The "gray market" for anything from drugs to travel is booming like never before. What is needed then is not wealth transfer between generations, such as income taxes paid by the young. What is needed is transfer from the rich elderly to the poor elderly. It is time to means test many of the benefits. If you are earning 200k+ in passive retirement income, your social security can be partially diverted to help those truly in need.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#113

Post by quickben »

nkrisc wrote: post #88
quickben wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. Sometimes people can't, and that's about it. But lately, I have more and more friends that don't want to have children. The girls are in their 35s and guys in 40s, add or take five. They share and attempt to behave as if they are in their twenties. They enjoy the easy Toronto life, spend everything they earn, cluster together with others of similar lifestyle, and reinforce each own egos that they are doin…

I'd say raising children to be your caretakers when you're old is far more selfish than simply not having children.

You know, it's not about that. It's family, plural.

Synergy, something more than the parts.

My grandma and grandpa showered together in their 70s as to not break bones in the bathroom.

This is, I imagine, vastly different from what they did there in their 20s.

Each decade brings new challenges and lifestyle.

Man is a pack animal. We need our tribe and our pack.

Choosing to be alone will reap many temporary benefits. However, it's a gamble, as society, and the very core of what drives us, isn't meant to function in isolation.

Life is with other people, and more so with ones that are of your own kind, to face whatever the times may bring.

Take this as you will.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#114

Post by falcolas »

linkmotif wrote: post #109
falcolas wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big macs provide about ~600 calories and 25g of protein for $4. The whole meal is over 1000 calories for $6. It's hard to beat in terms of speed or price. Nutrition? Yeah, pretty low (though it's a good source of iron and Vitamin A). Sure, I could make a meal with more calories for a little cheaper... but at a high up-front cost in money, and an prep/cook cost in time.

Big Macs are shit salty food that doesn’t make you full and spikes your glycemic load so you’re hungry again in 30 minutes. The American idea that poor people get to organize their time the same way that non poor people get to organize their time is near the core of the problem. The argument that eating fast food saves you time is deeply troublesome because poor people, while disadvantaged in many ways like having to…

Where else can I spend $6, and have 1000+ calories available to me the next minute?

Assume I don't have prep time, because I'm not at home, or because I'm already late for my second job in an attempt to provide for myself at minimum wages.

A lot of folks don't have the time or energy to stock up for, prepare and cook proper meals, whether rich, poor, or somewhere in between. Call it a tragedy of the modern times.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#115

Post by bradleyjg »

maxerickson wrote: post #101
bradleyjg wrote: post #75

Social security is a pretty strange program in no small part because it doesn't know what it wants to be. It tries to be everything to everyone -- a mandatory savings program for the middle class, an anti-poverty program for the elderly, a safety net for widows and orphans, and long term disability insurance. It could use a good healthy dose of the UNIX philosophy of do one thing and do it well. The woman profiled in…

They are separate programs though. They just all happen to involve the same expertise and are managed together. (the things you call mandatory savings and anti-poverty aren't separate things, but it is mandatory because the anti-poverty funding is done on an actuarial basis with the broadest possible base; in any case, you receive benefits based on having paid in, not just because you is old)

You only partly receive benefits based on having paid in. You can also receive benefits based on a live, dead, or even ex-spouse having paid in. Or a live or dead parent.

Given that some people don't qualify at all it isn't a particularly well designed anti-poverty measure. You can say that it isn't supposed to be until you are blue in the face, but that's certainly how it was and continues to be sold. Given that if you died at age 60 without a wife or children your estate gets nothing, it isn't a particularly well designed mandatory savings program. That is another way it was and continues to be sold. Given that there's no underwriting it isn't a well designed insurance program (annuity).

Like our tax advantaged retirement savings options -- with its grab bag of different programs -- or Medicare with its bizarre A/B/D distinction (not to mention C) no one would actually set out to design a system like social security. People defend it because it is the status quo and they fear the unknown that admitting ought to replaced would open up.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#116

Post by JustSomeNobody »

turc1656 wrote: post #68

"...and faced yet another nasty choice between need and want. Should she go to the dentist, or take a guided tour of buildings designed by her favorite architect, Frank Lloyd Wright? Each cost $100. She picked Frank Lloyd Wright. Her teeth could wait." Wow, with decisions like that it's no wonder that woman is in a bad position. Honestly, though - am I supposed to feel bad for someone like this? You can bet that if I…

Never forget to pay yourself. It is morally crushing to work and work and never have any enjoyment. It's wrong to have the attitude that she makes bad decisions so of course she's poor.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#117

Post by pkaye »

DigitalJack wrote: post #80
quickben wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. Sometimes people can't, and that's about it. But lately, I have more and more friends that don't want to have children. The girls are in their 35s and guys in 40s, add or take five. They share and attempt to behave as if they are in their twenties. They enjoy the easy Toronto life, spend everything they earn, cluster together with others of similar lifestyle, and reinforce each own egos that they are doin…

Wow. Children as a retirement plan. And you are calling people who don't do that selfish?

In some cultures, children are the retirement plan but usually the help is mutual. The children stay with the parents till marriage, the parents help with major purchases, looking after the kids. At some point the children are self supporting and switch roles. The custom of young adults gaining independence early does have a cost.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#118

Post by turc1656 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #107
turc1656 wrote: post #68

"...and faced yet another nasty choice between need and want. Should she go to the dentist, or take a guided tour of buildings designed by her favorite architect, Frank Lloyd Wright? Each cost $100. She picked Frank Lloyd Wright. Her teeth could wait." Wow, with decisions like that it's no wonder that woman is in a bad position. Honestly, though - am I supposed to feel bad for someone like this? You can bet that if I…

Why are we so determined to remove any joy from the lives of the poor? Unless you've exorcised all fun, discretionary activities from your life you're obviously just a bad decision-maker. This kind of thing is about one step from this sort of crap: http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/0/4/8/603048_v2.j...

That link/picture isn't crap, even if it is Fox News. That photo goes to the whole concept of what "poor" actually is. Poor can be defined as relative or absolute. We normally use it in the relative sense, so there are always poor people, but over the last 200+ years the standard of living of even the poorest among us has risen dramatically.

Case in point - how many people who are poor somehow manage to own smartphones? That's basically the updated version of the fridge concept but it is still an extremely valid point. The woman in the article was able to become a "road gypsy". Would that have ever been possible prior to the 21st century in any scenario where she wasn't possibly facing starvation or at least malnutrition as she traveled the country? No.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#119

Post by pc86 »

sharemywin wrote: post #67
pc86 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a rural town it would be enough for a decent living. It most certainly would not be. Survivable? Probably. Decent? Absolutely not. And Medicare recipients still have out of pocket requirements, that's the whole reason Medicare supplement insurance exists. The average out of pocket expense for Medicare recipients in 2014 was over $4,000. Tell someone making $1,400 a month they need to budget $350 a month for heal…

Probably like $2400-$2800 if it's a pension and social security.

> > This lady gets almost $17,000 a year in pension and social security

    17000 / 12 = 1416.67
So no, not "probably like $2400-2800"

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#120

Post by jorblumesea »

turc1656 wrote: post #111
jorblumesea wrote: post #49

I wonder if these kinds of stories will prompt real political will for things like single payer healthcare or a real social safety net.

A "real" social safety net? Is that a joke? As though we already don't have tons of social programs? Sure, the US might not be as insanely generous as some European nations, but the US has medicare, medicaid, food stamps (SNAP), social security, welfare (SSI), disability, housing assistance, CHIP, WIC, ACA subsidies, section 8 housing assistance, home energy assistance, and probably even more I can't think of or don'…

$7k / person is nothing compared to most European countries.

And we still don't have a single payer healthcare system.

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