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Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

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Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#41

Post by knicholes »

rabbite wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #20

> But there is little money to see the sights. She earns too much to receive food stamps, and a lot of it goes to groceries. She tries to eat organic food, with her low blood sugar. That rules out cheap but filling Big Macs — as well as the food kitchens whose mass-produced meals, she decided, are unhealthful. Why do newspapers use as examples people who seem to have done everything wrong? Is it because formerly midd…

I'd tend to agree, many of the critical decisions highlighted make her life much harder than it has to be. "Organic" labeled food is much more expensive than beans, rice, and basic chicken. She even decides to buy a $21 prime rib dinner from a restaurant! the article mentions that it would be good for 3 meals. $7 per meal is much larger than what it would cost to make that meal yourself from groceries. I feel for her…

I'd say even driving at all is a mistake if one is trying to save money. Insurance is costly, gas is costly, and so are speeding tickets. I recommend to struggling friends to buy a used bicycle (some non-profits will give bicycles away for free) or to ride public transportation.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#44

Post by gozur88 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
macintux wrote: post #2

This and the "retail apocalypse" piece are quite sobering. There are going to be a lot of homeless elderly in the future.

Only if nothing is done by society to fix the problem.

How much additional obligation do the rest of us have to people who had their entire child-free lives to save money and didn't, already receive a check from the government every month, and get free health care? Do individuals have no responsibility at all for their own situation?

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#45

Post by ianai »

jhpankow wrote: post #16
cpursley wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hum. Potential opportunity: Turn dead malls into senior centers with housing for the elderly.

Who pays?

Clearly, the government. And that’s fitting considering government already provides social security. Outlays for wholesale housing would actually decrease social security spending through cost economies of scale.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#46

Post by parsnips »

mattnewton wrote: post #26
rabbite wrote: post #25

Five paragraphs in, the root of many of her problems: "Her savings long gone, and having never done much long-term financial planning" Six paragraphs in, the root of elderly problems nation-wide: "Nearly one-third of U.S. heads of households ages 55 and older have no pension or retirement savings and a median annual income of about $19,000" Is it possible that the lack of long term financial planning, aka saving mone…

A lot of the sources of savings were in houses, which burst in 2008.

How much equity was lost due to inflated gains vs down payments/mortgage payments. I'd say much more the former than the latter, If I had to guess.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#47

Post by crispyambulance »

nnfy wrote: post #21

>Her savings long gone, and having never done much long-term financial planning And so again we are expected to pay for the mistakes of others. What incentive is there to save if you know you have a social net to save you anyway? Yes, I understand, it is a terrifying way to live, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but if we deincentivize personal responsibility, what stops this from becoming a larger problem? How can this…

The thing is a lot of people run out of money for many different reasons and a lack of "personal responsibility" is only one of them.

All it takes is one big crash to wipe out years of long term financial planning. Illness of oneself, a spouse, child or parent can easily crater life savings. Sometimes people just live too damn long. And yes, sometimes people lack "personal responsibility."

To some extent, yes, you are expected to pay for the safety net of others. You never know when YOU might need it.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#48

Post by notacoward »

There's a terribly toxic combination at work here - a demographic bubble, lifespans (but often not productive lifespans) extended by modern medicine, high cost of that modern medicine, declining market value of skills held by the older generation, flat middle-class earnings, near-total elimination of defined benefit programs, and a series of financial shocks eroding the value of stock-market alternatives. The result is akin to an epidemic - millions of older people physically able and likely to live a few more decades, but financially not even capable of making it another year without help. Scary.

The GOP/libertarian answer is likely to be that "too young to die" isn't true. No, they won't come out and say it, but the policies they promote come down to that. "Just die already, it'll be good for the economy (or at least the stock market)." Problem is, they won't die. They'll end up in hospitals more often, or prisons. If you think nobody has deliberately gone to jail just to ensure three squares and health care, think again. Some will end up in their children's homes, which can be great sometimes but is more often a drain on those children's own prospects. Many will end up on the streets. The rich families who send their kids to Washington or Wall Street won't be affected and thus mostly own't care, but it will be a literal disaster for everyone else.

Like it or not, the only real choice is for us as a society to do more to look after the elderly. Not only is it the humane choice, but when you add up all the costs of the alternative that's even worse. And no, we can't rely on private charity to do the job. There's nowhere near enough organized charity for that, and at the individual level very very few of the people affluent enough to offer help will go anywhere near somebody else's poor grandmother. I'm extremely fortunate that I can afford to pay for my mother to be in a nice assisted living facility, but everything below that is a hellhole and my personal solution doesn't scale to all of society.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#50

Post by qaq »

macintux wrote: post #2

This and the "retail apocalypse" piece are quite sobering. There are going to be a lot of homeless elderly in the future.

Nope given the scale of the problem and considering those elderly are voters, you can fully expect the burden to be shifted to the currently working via taxes etc.
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