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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#161

Post by crankylinuxuser »

craftyguy wrote: post #114
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.

At our local mall, there's a sign warning that under 18 aren't allowed without adults.

They also removed much of what would attract teens and that age group. And many of the "older person stores" are ridiculously priced. Amazon, Walmart online, Aliexpress, and others are cheaper.

Malls are full of expensive stuff, not very good stuff, and caters to nobody in particular.

I know for us, it's because "Payless Shoes" that has cheap size 15's is the only reason why. So we beeline in, and out.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#162

Post by mc32 »

Cidan wrote: post #87
pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

> Let's make towns have downtowns, with beautiful brick roads, scenic ponds with some ducks, perhaps a waterfall, some nice cafes, a lawn with benches, some parks, some nature, trees, live music, a library and museums. You would think! I live in Santa Monica, California, and we have exactly that in our downtown area. The retail shop turnover is insane -- a large amount of shops come and go from the area, despite the…

I concur. High foot traffic does not result in steady state retail om the local streets. I've lived in the far east and despite heavy mom and pop representation, the turnover is insane _and_ due to lack of aircon in the mom and pops, people flock to malls due to free aircon.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#163

Post by unabst »

Balgair wrote: post #136
unabst wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... SM is a bit wack. The prices are so high, only big businesses can afford to be there. So most stores are big franchises. And it's too touristy for any culture. Main St is better, and towards Venice. I would also nominate DTLA. Downtown is lit. Parking is wack though. Consumers are no longer interested in old retail chains. They follow influencers and their original brands, but they're mostly direct to consumer,…

SM is loud and very touristy. Buskers are allowed amps for their guitars and I can't count the number of languages spoken. It's more of an airport terminal than anything approaching 'local'. God have mercy on you at the pier. I'd go Culver City, as a better 'local' kinda thing, but even then you need to get up to SB to really stand a chance of a quiet coffee on the street. > Parking is wack though. Literally all of L…

Even Beverly Hills has great parking. The major bottleneck downtown is parking right now and has been for a while. SM moved fast to build multiple parking structures... and that's where all the foot traffic comes from. Not sure why DTLA is so nonchalant about this. Don't see any construction whatsoever.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#164

Post by itswhateverman2 »

heimidal wrote: post #159
itswhateverman2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

Never? I certainly prefer a mall over a nice outdoor space (which I have available to me) when it’s freezing outside with a sheen of ice covering everything.

Sure, it's convenient when the weather is bad. That still doesn't make malls a staple of social activity, which was the point I was arguing against.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#165

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #47
Analemma_ wrote: post #17

Make sure you read the article and don't just come here to comment: there's an important point that this isn't (just) due to Amazon and overbuilding, but because a lot of these troubled chains-- even the ones that are still profitable!-- are loaded up on debt from leveraged private equity buyouts. Once again, PE accomplishes nothing except stripping healthy companies to sell their organs.

I posit that shopping by visiting multiple stores and maybe finding what you need is a less optimal experience than choosing what you want on a screen and having it delivered. You waste less time, vehicle and fuel expenses, and you get what you want. There might be a few niches where touching or trying it on make for a better shopping experience, but for the most part, I think people would be opting for online purcha…

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way. I had figured that having it delivered was less efficient. But once you factor in me having to drive to the store just for my purchase, whereas the delivery truck is going to make N deliveries, I think you're right that delivery is actually more efficient.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#166

Post by deadmetheny »

chronice70 wrote: post #137
wil421 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are online retailers any different? They are “fleecing” customers just as much. In fact, Jeff Bezos is currently the worlds richest man.

> How are online retailers any different? I get my esoteric shit tomorrow. That's how they're different. Sorry, but not everyone is entitled to a job in 2018.

>That's how they're different. Sorry, but not everyone is entitled to a job in 2018.

There but for the grace of God go I. I hope karma deals with you accordingly, should you ever find yourself in dire straits.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#167

Post by logfromblammo »

craftyguy wrote: post #114
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.

Especially since a lot of malls intentionally made themselves unfriendly to students in high school and college in order to cater more to young families and affluent people.

They are hoist on their own petard, because as it turns out, the young families chose the big box stores to save money, and the affluent people are not numerous enough or consumerist enough to support more than one mall in their town. That mall gets the Brookstones and Sephoras and Victoria's Secrets and the Apple Stores. The other malls are full of basically nothing but cell phone vendor kiosks and a food court, and they die.

Malls made an intentional decision to push shopping over social activity, and killed their appeal, because you can shop from anywhere by using your phone, and 99% of what you want comes from a combination of your grocery store, big box store (possibly the same as your grocery store), and online shopping. There is now no reason whatsoever to physically travel to any mall in the US. They have only lame chain restaurants, the Borders/Waldenbooks has been closed for decades, the good music store closed and only the corporate sellout store remains, the Radio Shack is gone, Sears left, JCPenney is kaput, but you have plenty of stores that sell "fashion" to teen girls, including the ubiquitous Express, Justice, Forever 21, and Hot Topic. So the mall is where your mom takes you when the clothes at Wal-Mart, Target, or Kohl's aren't good enough any more.

I think if malls had gone the other direction, perhaps by adding mid-size under-21 live music venues as anchors, they would not be falling apart today.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#168

Post by xeromal »

craftyguy wrote: post #114
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.

Go to a mall on the weekend and tell me. Maybe the malls are dying in dead cities, but they're booming in LA who already has plenty of mom and pop shops too. Both are thriving.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#169

Post by iamcasen »

cptskippy wrote: post #44
mjevans wrote: post #16

I really hate investment firms that operate entirely on financial trickery instead of actually sound business activities that increase productivity. I still think there's a problem with retail, but adding the above seems like salting the earth you're trying to grow a diverse farm in.

I agree. These investment firms pickup companies for a song when their stock prices fall and then basically gut them of any value they possess. They force the companies to take on massive liabilities that make them unsustainable. Then they slap on a fresh coat of paint and sell them off to any sucker whose willing to buy them. They leave these companies circling the drain. Is this capitalism in it's final form?

Late stage.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#170

Post by ganoushoreilly »

nradov wrote: post #130
pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

Santana Row has been fairly successful in creating a sustainable artificial "downtown" mall in suburban San Jose. No ducks or waterfalls, but they frequently have live music and the café is decent. http://www.santanarow.com/

The other side of that is Santana row caters to high end buyers looking for high end brands that most malls won't carry. It's a bit of an edge case. They do have a Fogo de Chao though so that makes it cool in my book :D .
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