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USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

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Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#371

Post by grad_ml »

sib wrote: post #294
bbatha wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We take a 23yo Chinese engineering graduate as he's going to begin peak productivity - the USA didn't have to invest in his k-12, scholarship his university, clean the water he drank for 24 years, etc. Instantaneous social profit. That's only the half of it. The US gives out far more F-1 student visas than H-1Bs (roughly 3x). That means that US infrastructure trains the student, but then the US doesn't get to take…

Although, in most cases, the university is using the international students to fund university operations and education (typically without reducing tuition price through financial aid) that brings value to the domestic students...

In the new order, aws infrastructure is same for every one! Consider OPT students getting trained in a early stage startups, do not get H1b after 2-3 years, what would he do? Quite few of them(smart, ambitious ones) will go back home and will compete on the similar products. You can think, schools educated them for quite of money but they got so more in return. I personally believe, every penny invested in CS/math education is worth it.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#372

Post by utobi »

learc83 wrote: post #139
vostok wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant that they'll give you a visa if you make more than a certain amount not if you invest over a certain amount. I've now edited my comment.

Sorry, you said "so long as you pay over a certain amount", so I just took the comment at face value. >if you make more than a certain amount not if you invest over a certain amount. I don't know any developed countries with that system. Do you?

One example is the Blue Card for Germany. The required amounts are ridiculous. It is not used a lot though, I guess people don't want to learn German :)

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#373

Post by utobi »

jopsen wrote: post #264
neeleshs wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, which are these countries?

Denmark grants VISA if you find a job making > 62k USD per year. OR you work in an industry on the "positive list" which includes management, doctors, research, and tech jobs in general. I'm sure lots of countries have similar rules.

Germany has something similar called Blue Card.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#374

Post by [deleted] »

bischofs wrote: post #324
vilmosi wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Why not build up your own country and affect their living standards in a positive way? I can answer that in a personal way. Because I don't care. The modern world is capitalist, especially with software. If your work is worth X dollars, why would you work for X/10 dollars? Because of nationalism?

Interesting perspective. I am curious about why the country you are going to pays more than the one you are coming from in software. Would it be too bold for me to say it has some cultural reasons? Perhaps the openness to innovation? or maybe the way people think about solving new problems? Why not try to instill these cultural mechanisms in the country you came from? I hope i'm not coming across as a cultural imperi…

[deleted]

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#375

Post by friedButter »

addicted wrote: post #120
majormajor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even established companies not in the obviously-sleazy Tata/Infosys abuse buckets play games here. "Write up job description consisting of specialty skills your H1B candidate already has, but that you don't need in your company in that role, then use them as a generic webdev" type stuff.

Yeah because wanting someone who has worked in your company for 3-5 years and has an in depth knowledge of the job and the internal Dynamics of the company is obviously the exact equivalent of someone who has experience in the 3-4 specific headline technologies whether they are good or not at that is a terrible idea. The alternative of an H1B is not an American. It's off shoring the entire project to a team that does…

>The alternative of an H1B is not an American. It's off shoring the entire project to a team that doesn't live in the US in the first place.

This is fairly obvious, but do Americans not realize this? Or are they consciously saying that its better for high paying jobs to move out of US than for foreigners to work at those jobs in US?

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#376

Post by ekidd »

hkmurakami wrote: post #132
smsm42 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education I'd like to hear the list of places doing far better than MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. in STEM fields. I mean I know there are pretty good schools around, but can you really say MIT is "lagging far behind" them? > higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive That's because when you buy "higher education" in US you buy something enti…

I would go even further to say that the best US students are often "better" than the best international counterparts, because the US runs a primary and secondary education system with a philosophy to grow the standout students as much as possible. The best high schools encourage their top students to really dive deep into their subject of interest, rather than focus on improving the performance of laggards or general…

> The best high schools encourage their top students to really dive deep into their subject of interest, rather than focus on improving the performance of laggards or generally concentrating on improving average performance.

This is certainly not my experience of the US public school system, either as a student or a parent. The typical US school has always cared more about getting 20th-percentile students to meet a minimum standard. And if the student makes an effort to work with the school, the school is very good at it. Public schools are evaluated based on how many students meet that minimum standard ("No Child Left Behind"), and they respond to that incentive.

The 80th to 90th percentile students, well, they're kind of an afterthought. I mean, they're going to ace all the standardized exams anyway. Now, some public schools will make an effort to help high-performing students, because teachers do care, but it's not incentivized.

Private schools, on the other hand, are evaluated on a very different metric—how many students get into Harvard/Yale/Stanford/etc.? They game this metric by offering generous scholarships to top-notch students, and by charging stiff tuition to rich parents.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#377

Post by vilmosi »

bischofs wrote: post #324
vilmosi wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Why not build up your own country and affect their living standards in a positive way? I can answer that in a personal way. Because I don't care. The modern world is capitalist, especially with software. If your work is worth X dollars, why would you work for X/10 dollars? Because of nationalism?

Interesting perspective. I am curious about why the country you are going to pays more than the one you are coming from in software. Would it be too bold for me to say it has some cultural reasons? Perhaps the openness to innovation? or maybe the way people think about solving new problems? Why not try to instill these cultural mechanisms in the country you came from? I hope i'm not coming across as a cultural imperi…

>>> Interesting perspective. I am curious about why the country you are going to pays more than the one you are coming from in software

Are you asking me why some places pay more than others? I don't think I have the expertise to answer that correctly honestly, it's probably a multitude of factors.

But I don't think it's cultural (or mostly cultural) since it happens within countries too. Silicon valley pays more than the Midwest, London pays more than Birmingham. I don't know why exactly but it's undeniable that they do.

>>> Why not try to instill these cultural mechanisms in the country you came from?

Because I don't think it's cultural. And even if it were... Why would I do that? My family is more important that some vague notion of changing cultural mechanisms.

>>> Also I don't think people should migrate for purely financial reasons. There is a lot of rich and interesting cultures in this world - it would be a shame if people just abandoned them for the sake of money

Sorry to be blunt, but it's not your choice. People's lives and priorities are their own to make.

This sounds too much like airmchair philosophy. It's great that you can do it but it's not "just money" for the vast majority of people, rich country or not.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#378

Post by pnutjam »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #248
hkmurakami wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go even further to say that the best US students are often "better" than the best international counterparts, because the US runs a primary and secondary education system with a philosophy to grow the standout students as much as possible. The best high schools encourage their top students to really dive deep into their subject of interest, rather than focus on improving the performance of laggards or general…

This is definitely not the case for public schools in CA, for the most part. That's why I'm basically forced to sending my children to private schools at considerable cost ($30k/yr/child).

My Midwest school does, but it's usually rated as one of the better ones in the state.

Someone up thread seemed to think the average student of another country would blow away the average US student. I don't think this is true. The US pays lip service to universal education more then most other countries. Unfortunately we don't follow through on it and this leaves a large enough number of substandard schools to make a significant impact on US test averages. The sad fact is the tail end of these averages are so bad they bring down the score, but the "average" for the majority of US students is much higher.

This stratification of education is probably a significant contributor to the stratification of wealth in the US, and it's not OK.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#379

Post by pnutjam »

smsm42 wrote: post #301
vilmosi wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, every study puts the US in a mediocre position in education within the OECD. That's not a debate.

What is "position in education"? I notice that's the third person making claims without backing them up or even substantiating them enough to be verifyable ("US school sucks" is not verifyable, "US schools ranked number N according to metric M published by organization O" is). I don't know where these people are educated so not sure whether I can take it as anecdotal evidence to either side... Also protip: "this is n…

The US is also exceptional in how bad its bad schools are, this drags our averages down. While it's a tragedy for the kids who are not being served, it's a distortion to say all US schools are bad when most are not.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#380

Post by pnutjam »

learc83 wrote: post #73
komali2 wrote: post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

>1 the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education It's not as a whole. Parts of it are, Education here is local, and there are states the size of Finland that compare with Finland in education outcomes. >2 and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations Income based repayment ensures that you will never pay more than 10% of your disposable income (income…

The "poverty line" is a joke. It's pegged to food when the largest expenses for most families are housing and medical care. I know I probably spend about the same on groceries as I spend on health insurance, without taking into account what my employer pays, deductibles, etc.

I doubt many families have 10% of income to spare.

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