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Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

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Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#161

Post by ghaff »

davidkuhta wrote: post #129

Excited about the technology and expected this news eventually, but in less of a "Bam, we did it" and more of a "Coming Dec 2017... look for new autonomous vehicles, they'll be bright orange with flashing lights". Following-up on the "How is this legal" question below, can anyone comment on: 1. For the 'autonomous engineers/technologists': a) Is the technology mature enough that it can be utilized without an on-board…

>a) Any examples of technologies prematurely introduced that had negative impact on their growth or contributed to their demise?

Not really a class of product, but there certainly have been interesting processor architectures whose implementations weren't very good (and/or their timing was bad) out of the gate. Itanium comes to mind although there are others as well. One can reasonably argue whether it made a difference in the long run but late and slow meant Itanium ultimately never had a chance.

>a) Who's responsible if someone gets hurt or the vehicle breaks a law?

It's an interesting question. Outside of, perhaps, drugs, it's hard to think of consumer products that, correctly maintained, and used according to directions (or even not), randomly hurt or kill people and everyone just accepts that because "stuff happens." No, they get a lawyer. It also raises questions like "I'm sorry. You're not updated to sensor suite 3.72 with firmware patch level 7865 so we're not liable" or "Your vehicle is out of support and we can no longer provide security or safety updates so you can no longer be covered for liability."

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#162

Post by mantas »

eggpy wrote: post #86
juliesulti wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are anecdotes of Google Maps causing traffic, routing people to dead ends, etc. There was the incident where Google Maps routed a lot of interstate drivers down a dirt road serving a prison. Last week in Oakland, Google routed drivers away from traffic on I-880, onto Embarcadero where the bridge is closed for construction. Last week, Google refused to route me over the open, clear Sonora Pass between Modesto an…

I wasn't aware of these, but with anecdotes like these then it makes perfect sense to have available remote human overrides! I don't mean to insinuate that maps is perfect, just that the number of times the cars will find themselves in this specific situation is probably minimal.

Eh, in my whereabouts Google Maps routinely suggest "shortcuts" on shitty dirt roads instead of 10km "detour" on a perfect tarmac road. And use 70km/h (speed limit for dirt roads) to guesstimate duration for the shortcut. It got to a point that I'm double-checking their suggestions via sat photos or other routing services.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#163

Post by avh02 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #87
samstave wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The public will accept the perceived risks in driverless rides. This is what I am trying to highlight - what, specifically, are these risks that people need to be made aware of? So now, in addition to everything, there will come a day when a person is stranded some-place as the driverless car couldnt exactly find them, and the person had to call the call center to get help and guess what... calling the call center…

So now, in addition to everything, there will come a day when a person is stranded some-place as the driverless car couldnt exactly find them Ahh, if you think this is a new problem, you're too young to remember the fun of calling a cab by pay phone to some obscure address, then alternating between going inside and calling the dispatcher and then running out to the street to try to flag down the cab. At least with a…

I'll just be happy that I don't have to make sure the driver isn't microsleeping on a late drive home (it's happened more often than I care to count). Some countries have very poor regulations on working hours for people operating vehicles.

Edit: I don't mean to sound like I'm singling out ride sharing/hailing companies, it's an across the board thing with human drivers.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#164

Post by sudhirj »

a9a wrote: post #148

It will be interesting to see how Lyft's partnership with Waymo evolves given this tech announcement and Waymo's acknowledgment that they plan to offer their own ridesharing service. Lyft's approach to self-driving partnerships in general seems to rest on the assumption that self-driving providers will catch up to each other before any of them can fully handle everything a human driver can do. If this assumption is c…

Think it's unlikely that Waymo will build out and operate a full fledged ride service - there's a lot of other factors to work out like scheduling, routing, supply-demand management, optimal vehicle distribution, pooling etc that they could just delegate to Lyft for.

They might just build a service to the extent of push a button and a vehicle will come, and take you where you tap. That's enough to work inside a controlled town environment. As times goes by there'll likely be a merger with an actual ride sharing company.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#165

Post by mynameisvlad »

illirik wrote: post #155
newlyretired wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Person gets into the driverless car way too intoxicated and passes out/overdoses/dies in the car -- need physical help? > So now we have driverless cars effectively classified as emergency ambulances - so assuming the CARNOC is paying attention, they then drive the car to the hospital - and have to have a mechanism to contact said hospital > Imagine the healthcare implications where if someone hasa seizure, ODs, ca…

There would be several bystanders in a typical Copenhagen rail car; they would be able to call for help. This wouldn't necessarily be the case in a driverless car; if the only passenger has a medical emergency, it would be up to the vehicle to detect that and take appropriate action.

Not necessarily in the scenario they presented. While I haven't been in Copenhagen specifically, I've been in plenty of train cars late at night (think last few trains before service closes) where I'm the only person in the car.

Just like a random onlooker could see you from the platform, someone in another car could see you in your driverless one and call emergency services. The two scenarios are very similar in the end. It's just that the train car has a higher (but far from 100%) chance that you will be noticed more quickly.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#166

Post by strin »

sudhirj wrote: post #164
a9a wrote: post #148

It will be interesting to see how Lyft's partnership with Waymo evolves given this tech announcement and Waymo's acknowledgment that they plan to offer their own ridesharing service. Lyft's approach to self-driving partnerships in general seems to rest on the assumption that self-driving providers will catch up to each other before any of them can fully handle everything a human driver can do. If this assumption is c…

Think it's unlikely that Waymo will build out and operate a full fledged ride service - there's a lot of other factors to work out like scheduling, routing, supply-demand management, optimal vehicle distribution, pooling etc that they could just delegate to Lyft for. They might just build a service to the extent of push a button and a vehicle will come, and take you where you tap. That's enough to work inside a contr…

> there's a lot of other factors to work out like scheduling, routing, supply-demand management, optimal vehicle distribution, pooling etc

These things come along the way. If there is a service that's 10x cheaper than Lyft, I could imagine most people would churn to that service. The technology shift from human to completely autonomous driving is so huge that it could just disrupt the current market structure.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#167

Post by jamesjyu »

Fricken wrote: post #40
hardtke wrote: post #26

What happens if these cars get in a situation where there is no legal way to move? For instance, the other day I was driving down the street and it was closed because of a Farmers market. Will they just sit there for hours? In gridlock, there is often no way to move without "blocking the box."

Waymo and Cruise automation are building out call centres, where remote human monitors will be available to help out the vehicles when they get hung-up. The monitors won't be able to make safety-critical interventions, but they'll be able to give the cars and passengers instructions, kind of like a backseat driver, I guess. So if there's an accident scene, for example, the human monitor will judge whether to stop and…

Upcoming Uber advertisement: "You don't even need a car! Work from home and drive from your mobile phone."

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#168

Post by sudhirj »

zjaffee wrote: post #118
dabeeeenster wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother with ride sharing when the cost per mile would be so cheap?

Car pool lanes will likely be a big reason people choose to pool in autonomous cars. I imagine that self driving cars will make traffic much worse, and we will see a movement where cities create more and more HOV lanes to reduce traffic in such situations.

Over a short term, yes, but there's likely to be work done on co-operation + communication standards between autocars. If a cars at an intersection are all auto, a quick Raft election can decide who goes first, so they'll all get to go through much faster. Broadcasting intention can also help with overtaking, trailing, etc. And if road train standards get built in they can all run much faster and more efficiently on highways as well.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#169

Post by smeyer »

strin wrote: post #166
sudhirj wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think it's unlikely that Waymo will build out and operate a full fledged ride service - there's a lot of other factors to work out like scheduling, routing, supply-demand management, optimal vehicle distribution, pooling etc that they could just delegate to Lyft for. They might just build a service to the extent of push a button and a vehicle will come, and take you where you tap. That's enough to work inside a contr…

> there's a lot of other factors to work out like scheduling, routing, supply-demand management, optimal vehicle distribution, pooling etc These things come along the way. If there is a service that's 10x cheaper than Lyft, I could imagine most people would churn to that service. The technology shift from human to completely autonomous driving is so huge that it could just disrupt the current market structure.

>If there is a service that's 10x cheaper

Why would a ride service based on autonomous cars be 10x cheaper? It's not like 90% of the current revenue or costs are human labor. I'm not sure the exact ratio of driver labor vs. gas/maintenance/depreciation, but I'm pretty sure it's less than 10:1.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#170

Post by sudhirj »

samstave wrote: post #139
Symbiote wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace your driverless car with the driverless metro in Copenhagen, where you're only likely to see a metro employee in the busiest stations at peak times. Danish society hasn't yet collapsed. I think you're overstating the issues.

Is that said metro attached to rails -- or does it take you along "lines" where you have to get out at a designated station and then walk 2 miles to you house -- or does it pick you up and take you directly to the market. Your comment is bullshit comparison if youre talking about comparing freaking rails with vehicles whos routes are 100% random per rider.

Mentioning rails and "100% random" turn up an interesting point - people are comfortable with autonomous vehicles when they behave in predictable, understandable and widely known ways. And it looks like the Waymo cars and other autocars in general will do just that. Once people learn to recognize an autonomous driving style, whether they'll be concerned or bored depends on how predictable the style is, not the fact that it's autonomous.
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