Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel • Hacker News Board

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#71

Post by juliesulti » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

eggpy wrote: post #45

hardtke wrote: post #26

What happens if these cars get in a situation where there is no legal way to move? For instance, the other day I was driving down the street and it was closed because of a Farmers market. Will they just sit there for hours? In gridlock, there is often no way to move without "blocking the box."

Presumably Waymo has this traffic data by leveraging existing Android monitoring technology and can reroute accordingly. If you've ever used Google Maps for directions and come up to an accident or something you know it will suggest a better route as it becomes available. These cars will likely not get themselves into high-congestion areas with no way out simply because they already know about the high congestion are…

There are anecdotes of Google Maps causing traffic, routing people to dead ends, etc. There was the incident where Google Maps routed a lot of interstate drivers down a dirt road serving a prison. Last week in Oakland, Google routed drivers away from traffic on I-880, onto Embarcadero where the bridge is closed for construction. Last week, Google refused to route me over the open, clear Sonora Pass between Modesto and Bridgeport, giving me instead a 2.5-hour detour via US-50 to South Lake Tahoe.

I'm sure this Waymo project does not take the perfection of Google Maps data as a given.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#72

Post by samstave » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #57

dpiers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your vehicle and face are recorded by half a dozen cameras on the self-driving car and uploaded to the local police department for the accident report.

I think it's safe to say if someone was going to intentionally attack a Google self-driving car, say to hack it and direct it at a target, they'd bother to make a basic attempt to counteract the cameras. Something like those glasses with infrared lights that blind surveillance cams? Put some near your license plates as well perhaps, I don't know. Not that I agree with the parent this is likely, but most of the replie…

Yeah, basically exactly hat I am saying, aside from the medical questions...

Waymo had better have setup a course at DEFCON and see what those amazing minds can figure out on how to secure self driving vehicles.

This isnt a joke, this needs to be thoroughly sussed out

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#73

Post by giacaglia » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

dabeeeenster wrote: post #70

There's a positive feedback loop that will happen: As they get more cars on to the road, the log more real world miles, which makes the cars better, which gets more cars onto the road which log more miles... I wonder how valuable this is?

Tesla logs more miles per day than Waymo recorded in its history, but Waymo has better software just because of their simulations of the real world. See https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/08/insid...

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#74

Post by thaunatos » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #25

gervase wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws governing self-driving cars in Arizona are extremely lenient, perhaps the most in the nation. Additionally, it appears as if each ride is being monitored in real time remotely by a Waymo employee, who can intervene if something goes wrong, or if the riders request.

Does the car have an emergency button to stop the driving?

I imagine that stopping the car remotely is the least of a teledriver can do.

Unless you mean, is there a button inside the car? I don't know if that is of much importance, seeing as there isn't anyone physically there to press the button.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#75

Post by mdorazio » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

Ajedi32 wrote: post #69

mdorazio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arizona's government has deliberately taken a very pro-autonomous vehicles approach. The governor's executive order [1] specifically allows driverless vehicles on the roads within the state, provided they follow traffic laws and there is a licensed driver somewhere who will take responsibility if something goes wrong. [1] https://azgovernor.gov/file/2660/download?token=nLkPLRi1

> a licensed driver somewhere So, who would that be in this case? Does Waymo have a licensed driver monitoring the vehicle remotely, ready to take over at a moment's notice?

I'm not sure about "at a moment's notice", but yes they're supposed to have live operators standing by who can remotely direct the vehicles when needed. Since these are Level 4 vehicles, they should be able to safely pull over or stop when they are unsure what to do, so it isn't necessary to have a human continuously monitoring at all times.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#76

Post by hippich » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

Ajedi32 wrote: post #66

Wow! Waymo is now confident enough in their vehicles that they're willing to risk letting the public use them completely unsupervised? This seems like a huge milestone for self-driving car tech. I wonder what their current disengagement rates are for Chandler; at this point it has to be really close to zero, right?

I hope someone was sitting there in front of live feed with big red STOP EVERYTHING button.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#77

Post by bluetwo » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

The interstate highway system is an enormous and expensive asset paid for by the taxpayers of the US. Shouldn't we have a conversation about the rights of citizens before allowing corporations to set a precedent that we will not be able to roll back later?

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#78

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

edshiro wrote: post #68

If Waymo's tech is years ahead of the competition (say 18-24 months ahead minimum) then I think a lot of the self-driving companies and car manufacturers in the US will be having cold sweats. This may not be a winner-take-all market (I don't know honestly...) but I see this lead up enabling Waymo to capture significant market share in the US in regions where laws towards autonomous vehicles are friendly. One way the…

Do we have a good signal that truly indicates Waymo has more advanced tech? Or could they simply have a bigger appetite for risk?

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#79

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #62

joshuamorton wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of drivers have road cameras in their vehicles. If you crash into them, they will provide that as evidence when filing a police report. No one claimed that there would be a direct link from an autonomous car to police HQ, but that if you decided to break the law, the owner of that vehicle would do everything in its power to pursue you to the fullest extent of the law. That's not materially different than where…

Thats not what I presumed the commenters to be saying: "driverless cars will have sensors and cameras that wil report anything back to the police" So, lets assume we turn on an amber-alert and activate all driverless car cameras and sensors to find license plate X... Sure that sounds great - but "just leave all driverless car sensors up all the time and track everything everywhere is what I hear in that comment. And…

>driverless cars will have sensors and cameras that wil report anything back to the police

Well, driverless cars do have extensive sensor suites, and if you are a hit and run driver and I had a photo of your license plate, I would certainly use that to my advantage. I think you're reading the worst possible thing into what people are saying, which is your prerogative, but probably not constructive.

>And like I said, major tech companies are actually tracking every vehicle that drives by them, and reporting it to the police already.

Well yeah, that's what palantir does: they contract with governments and police departments to improve surveillance infrastructure. But assuming that because Palantir does that, everyone else will too is as silly as assuming that Amazon is going to come out with a Facebook clone. It's not in their business models.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#80

Post by samstave » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

nwatson wrote: post #64

samstave wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The public will accept the perceived risks in driverless rides. This is what I am trying to highlight - what, specifically, are these risks that people need to be made aware of? So now, in addition to everything, there will come a day when a person is stranded some-place as the driverless car couldnt exactly find them, and the person had to call the call center to get help and guess what... calling the call center…

These are companies with big purses and lots of human-factors personnel, and lots of lawyers that can write huge terms-of-service agreements, and cover legal costs and damages in lawsuits until they get it right. There are few better test beds for driverless cars than Phoenix metro, from technical, legal, and customer-concern viewpoints.

jeasus christ I dont know why you all are literally sticking your heads in the sand about asking questions and thinking answers.

"because money" isnt a freaking answer to the questions I have posed - so fucking man up and answer if you know?

Just because self driving tech is the new hotness doesnt mean that we can be ignorant to the consequenses and then thought-shame me for asking questions.

An engineer of any of his salt should posit an answer, and I literally asked for an ELI5 to some of these things and was met by a bunch of jerks who think that these are stupid questions to ask.

WTF HN?