Live data from Hacker News

Chrome breaks the Web

tonsky.me

431–440 of 473 posts

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#431
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your local church added a scroll listener for their small website, they deserve it.

To be fair, most likely someone's teenage son added a scroll listener when he built the small church's website before going off to college. In the category of "poor decisions made by teenagers" this is pretty tame.

what for?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#432
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, most likely someone's teenage son added a scroll listener when he built the small church's website before going off to college. In the category of "poor decisions made by teenagers" this is pretty tame.

what for?

My best guess? Because he thought it would be cool.

I'm not saying the decision makes sense. It obviously doesn't. But small organizations like a local church just don't have the expertise or resources to make good decisions about this sort of thing.

Saying they deserve what they get is pretty unhelpful - it is completely unrealistic for them to hire someone who knows what he's doing. They can't fix that problem. So what you're basically saying is "parochial institutions without expertise or money deserve to be screwed over." Personally I'd like to live in a better world than that.

Of course, I also agree with the decision that Chrome made, so... there's that. But the fact that groups like the church got screwed over is unfortunate.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#433
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adblock is opt-in. If the browser misbehaves because of an extension, the browser nor website is to be blamed. Chrome cannot decide on a whim that old websites should be broken. It is not how the web moves forward. Take for example Firefox that kept breaking extensions with every update, now they have few compatible extensions.

Choosing to use Chrome is also opt-in. Its the same concept. Its not ideal , but it is what it is.

I believe Chrome on mobile is the default (only?) browser. So it is opt-out, and a very painful opt-out that requires technical knowledge.

You ship an experience like that, you end up not only breaking old websites but shift the emphasis on regularly updated websites that work on mobile. That was the intent! But it is not the web we know and love.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but if they are that useful to users, those sites either need to be maintained or forked. Your argument could have just as easily been used to argue for Adobe Flash support(OK it's still sort of around, but it's nearly irrelevant at this point).

> sites either need to be maintained or forked Maintained by who, forked by who? You can't just fork someone's work, there is copyright. Also any saved copy of website(think web archive) will stop working.

Assuming you can even get at it; most useful tools have a significant server component that's inaccessible.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#435
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you break an API you are an "asshole" fullstop.

No, actually "I" (and anyone else building software) am not. Please be civil.

What do you want me to say, if "you" knowingly break an API, to me "you" are. Matter of opinions.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is such an obvious use case, they basically threw a ton of web-apps/crms under the bus.

While I dislike this behavior of chrome, you should never be able to set a users password.

i dunno why you're getting downvoted. you're right about this. but this doesn't apply to autofill behavior of non-password fields.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#437
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there at the time, the whole IE Vs Netscape thing started long before Java became a threat (though you are right about how Microsoft also fought that war as well). Plus Bill Gates has said in interviews since that he was trying to lock the web into Microsofts ecosystem because he saw the threat very early on about how it could be platform agnostic. While you can argue that Chrome and AMP serve the same goal, th…

you have good points. but what I belive gates was refering to at the time was what he was seeing as a threat to windows. if you ever have the chance, buy a used SGI workstation from ebay and play with the system. SGI had an affordable business workstations (pizza boxes) that shipped with irix5. the mais thing for irix 5 was that most of the in house applications (e.g. settings pannel, doc library, etc) were mozilla X…

Yeah I've played on a few different SGI systems (and other UNIX systems that are now a historical curiosity). It never ceases to amaze me how we ended up on Windows. Well, not me specifically as I switched away around 20 years ago but "we" in the broader sense.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is at around 60% of desktop user agents, which is obviously significant but nothing on the scale of what IE was in the 90s. What's more, Chrome's market share plummets massively when you take other devices into account. So comparing Chrome to IE is a little premature when talking about browser monopolies. Next lets look at the actual technology we're complaining about. ActiveX wasn't just an Internet Explorer-…

> Chrome is at around 60% of desktop user agents, which is obviously significant but nothing on the scale of what IE was in the 90s. What's more, Chrome's market share plummets massively when you take other devices into account. Yeah. Where other devices are mostly Android phones running Google's fork of Webkit. I.e., Chrome

I don't think it's as clear cut as that. You'll have iOS devices and a few Windows Phones too. Plus on Android it's pretty common (albeit mostly among power users) to install custom browsers like mobile ports of Firefox. Then you have other devices like games consoles. Things get pretty fragmented pretty quickly once you start investigating the "other devices" rabbit hole.

However that all said, when it comes to product support, I've found product owners generally only care about Blink (Chrome / whatever) on Android and Safari on iOS. So there's usually little interest in all the other random browser + platform combinations seen in "other devices".

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about an Administration interface that allows you to set a password to a known value for the user to use so they can log back into their account. So the helpful support person can now go "Your password is now 'foobar' and you will be asked to pick a new one when you login."

Why would you use input type=password for that?

You're creating a secret token. Both the administrator and the browser should be made aware of this. The administrator, so that they don't send it to the user via an unsecure method (Tweet it publicly), the browser so that it shows warnings if the site is somehow served without ssl or is compromised.

If it's something like a password, it should be treated like a password. Why shouldn't you use type=password for that?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#440
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this a reaction to moronic use of autocomplete=off in a user-hostile way by various websites? In a similar vein to how abuses of disabling the back button, popups etc have led to defensive measures by browser vendors.

I'm one of the folks who pushed for autocomplete=off to be disabled for password fields because of abuse. Basically, browsers obeyed autocomplete=off to shut off password managers; and sites used this to shut off password managers for "idk lol security" reasons. This isn't what the autocomplete attribute was for in the first place; password managers have a different workflow and saving a password is prompted to the u…

Corporate security requirements usually seem to come down to some committee sitting down and looking at every available option and demanding that they be configured to the most secure looking option, without regards to how much it actually improves security.

This is a continual frustration of mine, when valuable diagnostic data is disabled for security reasons and then when stuff breaks I'm asked to go fix it blind. Sure you can have gigabytes of audit logs that are impossible to find anything in, but an error message that tells you that some system certificate expired is too much of a security vulnerability.

Post reply on HN