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shkspr.mobi

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Re: <input type=“country” />

#61

Post by msla »

syncordie wrote: post #11
tyingq wrote: post #2

I have my doubts as to whether a generic solution solves this. The author notes some issues, like using it for place of birth. Now you need a temporal list for "countries that existed in year XYZ". There are similar issues for shipping. Not everyone ships everywhere. If the list is abstract and unknown to me, how do I whitelist/blacklist? Am I supposed to know that Scotland exists in the list or not? What if it's for…

An input list of all current passport issuing countries would be useful. The Scotland problem doesn't arise as they don't issue passports (the UK does).

Israel issues passports, but people holding an Israeli passport also hold some other country's passport if they want to travel to any other country in the MENA region. Also, recognizing Israel as a country will lead to the most interesting discussions in your software's support fora.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#62

Post by rplnt »

maxxxxx wrote: post #14
donatj wrote: post #6

Just do longitude and latitude. Show a map of the earth and let them drop a pin. There is no reasonable way to get the world to agree on a single list. I doubt you could get browser developers to agree on a single list. For example Apple listing Taiwan in Safari could get Apple kicked out of mainland China. There is simply too much politics here to be tenable.

I wonder how many people could find a country on a world map and drop a pin. I bet it's not too many.

Ordered by their product. I kid you not, that is how Fedora/Gnome had ordered resolution selection dropdown - by the total number of pixels.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#63

Post by laumars »

MBCook wrote: post #58
always_good wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was said in the original article, so I'd ask how that quip contributes to their own point beyond inviting this exact conversation. It's a very socially charged statement. Do you also expect people to overlook a quip about gun control laws while explaining how monads work in Haskell, or is that conversation off the table because you embedded it inside another topic?

I honestly don’t think the writer was trying to ‘invite this discussion’, she made an offhand comment about her experience. I think people are seizing this as an opportunity to talk about their pet peeve. The comment doesn’t add to the discussion about whether a country field would be useful or how it could be implemented at all . But anyway did you read the twitter thread? The writer proposed standardizing a common…

> Do you have a better word for that behavior?

How about, "internet discussions". It happens to all of us. Male and female. I've also had women "mansplain" things to me whilst completely missing the point I was raising. It's not always done in malice or for egotistical reasons; sometimes people misread comments due to distractions (riding the train, working while tweeting, etc) and sometimes people just have to work a little harder with comprehension (like I do due to dyslexia).

> It seems sad to me that seeing one word in an article is enough to derail the entire conversation because some people don’t like it. It’s not like it was a call to violence or something like that.

Conversations are organic and rarely follow preferred paths. I've seen discussions on HN about typefaces or colour schemes on articles that couldn't be further removed from design. It sometimes sucks to see an interesting topic digress into something so seemingly relevant but the irony is by commenting about how disappointed you are about the tangent you are further contributing to the digression from topic.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#64

Post by lovich »

MBCook wrote: post #58
always_good wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was said in the original article, so I'd ask how that quip contributes to their own point beyond inviting this exact conversation. It's a very socially charged statement. Do you also expect people to overlook a quip about gun control laws while explaining how monads work in Haskell, or is that conversation off the table because you embedded it inside another topic?

I honestly don’t think the writer was trying to ‘invite this discussion’, she made an offhand comment about her experience. I think people are seizing this as an opportunity to talk about their pet peeve. The comment doesn’t add to the discussion about whether a country field would be useful or how it could be implemented at all . But anyway did you read the twitter thread? The writer proposed standardizing a common…

The better word is "asshole". I've had similar condescending conversations from women when I was at the laundromat because I guess they assumed a guy would only be doing laundry in a direction circumstance. I didn't need to come up with a gender specific word for behavior that any random human is likely to exhibit.

As for this specifically, I doubt they corrected her because she was a woman. Ask any question on stack overflow about a specific edge case and you'll get a few people answering immediately about the general case and not your specific problem.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#65

Post by msla »

richardknop wrote: post #38
Y_Y wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A puppet state is a metaphor of a state that is supposedly independent but is in fact dependent upon an outside power. It is nominally sovereign but effectively controlled by a foreign or otherwise alien power, for reasons such as financial interests. Please tell us which European countries are US puppets.

Germany (still occupied by US army today), UK. Most of Eastern Europe.

Germany would be very interested to know it is a puppet state.

Who's Saudi Arabia a puppet state of?

Re: <input type=“country” />

#66

Post by always_good »

MBCook wrote: post #58
always_good wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was said in the original article, so I'd ask how that quip contributes to their own point beyond inviting this exact conversation. It's a very socially charged statement. Do you also expect people to overlook a quip about gun control laws while explaining how monads work in Haskell, or is that conversation off the table because you embedded it inside another topic?

I honestly don’t think the writer was trying to ‘invite this discussion’, she made an offhand comment about her experience. I think people are seizing this as an opportunity to talk about their pet peeve. The comment doesn’t add to the discussion about whether a country field would be useful or how it could be implemented at all . But anyway did you read the twitter thread? The writer proposed standardizing a common…

>Do you have a better word for that behavior?

That's just people on the internet, my friend.

Is it mansplaining when men do it to each other or is it only if it happens to be a receiving woman? And do we call it womansplaining in the reverse direction? Do we pause the discussion until we know the genders involved so that we can use the correct word? Is it always about gender if someone responds to us in a less charitable way on the internet?

Or should everyone just make more charitable interpretations of each other's posts online?

Also, if socially charged topics are supposed to be ignored when embedded in another topic, what other topics are off the table? Can you say anything you want as long as it's tucked away in a small enough footnote? Or do we only walk on egg shells around topics regarding women? Is that the path towards equality in tech -- to only address topics that concern men?

If we have a responsibility to stand up when women are being attacked, then I think we have a responsibility to stand up when people dilute the issues that women face, like pulling the gender card when it happens to be a woman that receives the same sort of banter that we all have to deal with and ignore on the internet.

>It wasn’t an offhand quip like your gun control example, it directly related to the tweet she was talking about.

BTW the author is, as far as I can tell, a man: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/about/. He linked to the tweet and annotated it with the word that ignited this comment thread. The contention here is that many of us disagree.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#67

Post by ubertaco »

rplnt wrote: post #45

Regarding the place of birth issue, I have never used the country I was born with when some form asked for birthplace. Always used the present state, i.e. in what country is the place I was born at. Is that not common? Would you expect someone to write down GDR, USSR, or even Constantinople? Or is it again the same issue that people want to use what they like?

One use-case I can see where this would come up: ancestry/genealogy websites. Someone's grandparents may have been born in the Soviet Union, not in the modern Ukraine, from a cultural-historical standpoint.

Re: <input type=“country” />

#68

Post by seszett »

darkhorn wrote: post #43

There is web component for that https://www.webcomponents.org/element/Protoss78/country-sele...

It's yet another tangent in this topic, but there's something that bothers me here, and in many things that try to handle multiple languages.

There are 47 lists of countries in French (that's just an example, I guess English and Spanish have as many of those) in the project that provides them [0], including half a dozen or so just for different regions of France.

As far as I can see, almost of them are exactly identical except for the Canadian one (which has "Saint-Vincent-et-les Grenadines" instead of "Saint-Vincent-et-les-Grenadines" among other things).

For English, en_US and en_UK have differences as meaningful as "Wallis and Futuna" vs. "Wallis & Futuna". Arabic has 28 different versions, all strictly identical.

English, French, Spanish and Arabic "version" alone make up 33% of all content in the repo. What purpose does this serve? Who maintains these largely meaningless lists? Who chooses which languages make it to the list, and which regions do?

I'm as puzzled by that as I am by the choices people make about what countries make it to their list of countries in select lists.

[0] https://github.com/umpirsky/country-list

Re: <input type=“country” />

#70

Post by Y_Y »

richardknop wrote: post #38
Y_Y wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A puppet state is a metaphor of a state that is supposedly independent but is in fact dependent upon an outside power. It is nominally sovereign but effectively controlled by a foreign or otherwise alien power, for reasons such as financial interests. Please tell us which European countries are US puppets.

Germany (still occupied by US army today), UK. Most of Eastern Europe.

That's about as reasonable as saying the US is a Canadian puppet because of their troops stationed at NORAD. Do you really consider Poland a puppet because of the 112 US troops there [0]? I hope this is a troll.

[0] https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/appj/dwp/rest/download?fileName=DMD...

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