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MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

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Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#61

Post by TallGuyShort »

sacheendra wrote: post #49
vidarh wrote: post #36

One of the most popular, not the . Finding precise numbers is hard, but in 2016, IDC reported worldwide PC sales of ca. 65 million units in Q1, and the market has been in decline (the Q1 2016 numbers were at 2007 levels). Meanwhile Android phones alone account for more than that every month, and while Intel does sell some CPUs for tablets etc. and other markets, it's peanuts compared to their PC sales. So at least An…

They qualify their stand by adding "... shipping today on modern Intel-based computers"

Thus making the headline effectively: "The most popular OS in the world ... shipping today on modern Intel-based computers ... thanks to Intel".

If we're all MINIX users, then Linux is a major player in the smartphone market and BSD is crushing the laptop market.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#62

Post by kogepathic »

gsich wrote: post #48
kogepathic wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice. How could Intel/AMD reasonably communicate this to customers and have it taken at face value? "Here's a flag to disable this black box we ship in every CPU. The product design and source code are proprietary, so please take our word for it that this flag disables everything." There was a blackhat talk on embedding malware in SMM and triggering it with a magic nu…

Turning it off/on would have to be a jumper setting on the mainboard. BIOS won't do any good, as this is more a "software" setting. However, a jumper might have the same effect...

How would a jumper resolve fears that the black box is not totally disabled?

You're referring to something deeply embedded in silicon and firmware. This isn't a separate device you can easily depower through a jumper.

What about a laptop or tablet where there is no user accessible jumper?

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#63

Post by criddell »

mrweasel wrote: post #27
Foxboron wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel ME is part of the initialization of the CPU during boot. You are running Intel ME wether or not you think its usefull. Removing Intel ME, or disabling it, results in your computer stopping after 30 sec. Much of the work to remove Intel ME is more about neutralizing the firmware. Pretty great talk from 32C3 about Intel ME https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7352-towards_reasonably_trustwor...

That wasn't really my point. Arguably it should be a feature you specifically enable, or better yet only present if you buy that option. If you ignore all that, then Intel ME actually seems rather useful, for a subset of users, specifically organisations with large numbers of machines deployed. Still I'm not sure that even the target audience of ME is actually using it, so it seems like a huge waste of time and money…

I believe the person you replied to was talking about the BUP module. This is useful to every user.

It's probably cheaper for Intel to ship the same ME on every motherboard than to customize it endlessly.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#64

Post by criddell »

factorialboy wrote: post #2

Can someone ELI5 why Intel needs an OS in the processor?

It does hardware initialization. This used to be done with dip switches but is now handled by the BUP module in the ME. It's basically the first thing that is executed on power on. If you wanted to neuter the ME, it would probably be safe to do so after the BUP module finishes its work.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#65

Post by batat »

cryogenic_soul wrote: post #22

Here is some Russian guys having success in almost fully disabling the Intel ME. http://www.pvsm.ru/informatsionnaya-bezopasnost/262876 (you can use Google translator from the top of the page, to translate content from Russian to English)

English version in Positive Technologies blog [1]

And this has already been added to me_cleaner [2] as --soft-disable option 2 months ago.

[1] http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html

[2] https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/commit/ced3b46ba2ccd7460...

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#66

Post by turblety »

qznc wrote: post #46
turblety wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also remember while a case can be made (although in my opinion a very weak one) for why you need a separate computer running beside your main processor, the main issue people have is that you: - Can not see what that operating system is doing - Can not read the source code for that operating system - Can not stop or manage that operating system - Can not upload/change/edit anything to do with that operating system

There are a lot more processors in your computer. Every hard disk has a computer [0] and your power adapter might too [1]. Seriously, who knows how many general purpose chips are inside a computer these days? [0] http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-d...

Do they all have direct access to every other device, memory and hard drive connected to your computer. Genuine question, I'm not sure but I would have thought they have to go through the main processor to access those devices.

However with ME and PSP they have complete access to everything you do on your computer. It can record your screen, monitor your traffic, connect to the internet, etc

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#67

Post by mnw21cam »

mrweasel wrote: post #20

Is anyone actually using Intel Management Engine? I understand why Intel would have it as a feature, but the majority of all users, including large companies and other organisation with 1000+ desktops, don't need it or use other solutions. Besides not being able to turn it of, it actually seems like a nice enough offer, I just never heard of anyone using it. Is there a demo of the ME somewhere?

Yeah, I have had my sysadmin email me telling me that my server has reported a few ECC errors on one of the DIMMs. That was done at IME level. Told us exactly which DIMM to replace, made it very easy.

Likewise, I have had him email me to tell me that a hard drive in one of the hardware RAID arrays had failed. No main OS involvement.

There is a use-case for this stuff. What is evil is how it is switched on all the time on everything when that is unnecessary.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#68

Post by gsich »

kogepathic wrote: post #62
gsich wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning it off/on would have to be a jumper setting on the mainboard. BIOS won't do any good, as this is more a "software" setting. However, a jumper might have the same effect...

How would a jumper resolve fears that the black box is not totally disabled? You're referring to something deeply embedded in silicon and firmware. This isn't a separate device you can easily depower through a jumper. What about a laptop or tablet where there is no user accessible jumper?

You could if the developer wanted to.

A jumper on a laptop is not impossible. But to be honest, I haven't seen one in my Thinkpads.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#69

Post by EGreg »

georgecmu wrote: post #43
cryogenic_soul wrote: post #22

Here is some Russian guys having success in almost fully disabling the Intel ME. http://www.pvsm.ru/informatsionnaya-bezopasnost/262876 (you can use Google translator from the top of the page, to translate content from Russian to English)

Here's the Register write-up on this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/29/intel_management_en... On Monday, Positive Technologies researchers Dmitry Sklyarov, Mark Ermolov, and Maxim Goryachy said they had found a way to turn off the Intel ME by setting the undocumented HAP bit to 1 in a configuration file. HAP stands for high assurance platform. It's an IT security framework developed by the US National Securit…

"Intel does not and will not design backdoors for access into its products. Recent reports claiming otherwise are misinformed and blatantly false. Intel does not participate in any efforts to decrease security of its technology"

We can all rest easy now that Intel has come out and public said this, right?

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#70

Post by thyrsus »

It would appear http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/in... that one must set the address of the IME before it is net accessible; how do I get there from, e.g., the HP iLO menus?

P.S.: I haven't observed the prompt "Press to enterIntel®MESetup" during boot.

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