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MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

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Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#41

Post by bryanlarsen »

vidarh wrote: post #37
bryanlarsen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a sysadmin for a machine that you don't have physical access to, and the main OS is hosed, how do you fix it? It's a very useful feature for large enterprises, and pretty much only for them. The interesting question is why doesn't Intel charge "enterprise pricing" for the feature, just like they do for stuff like ECC?

IPMI. IPMI is not integrated into the main CPU, so you don't have direct ability to control the state of the main CPU, but (depending on implementation) you'll be able to access sensor data, operate on the sensor data logs, get a console etc. With a properly set up system it means you have a standard way to attach, request a reboot and and interact with the system remotely.

IPMI works great on the server, not so well for managing desktops. Perhaps it should have been extended to support desktops, but I'm not surprised that Intel chose to push vPro instead.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#43

Post by georgecmu »

cryogenic_soul wrote: post #22

Here is some Russian guys having success in almost fully disabling the Intel ME. http://www.pvsm.ru/informatsionnaya-bezopasnost/262876 (you can use Google translator from the top of the page, to translate content from Russian to English)

Here's the Register write-up on this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/29/intel_management_en...

On Monday, Positive Technologies researchers Dmitry Sklyarov, Mark Ermolov, and Maxim Goryachy said they had found a way to turn off the Intel ME by setting the undocumented HAP bit to 1 in a configuration file.

HAP stands for high assurance platform. It's an IT security framework developed by the US National Security Agency, an organization that might want a way to disable a feature on Intel chips that presents a security risk.

The Register asked Intel about this and received the same emailed statement that was provided to Positive Technologies.

"In response to requests from customers with specialized requirements we sometimes explore the modification or disabling of certain features," Intel's spokesperson said. "In this case, the modifications were made at the request of equipment manufacturers in support of their customer's evaluation of the US government's 'High Assurance Platform' program. These modifications underwent a limited validation cycle and are not an officially supported configuration."

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#45

Post by kogepathic »

lottin wrote: post #26
gsich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this can be a useful feature. (Compare to ILO on servers)

They don't need to remove it, adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice.

> adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice.

How could Intel/AMD reasonably communicate this to customers and have it taken at face value?

"Here's a flag to disable this black box we ship in every CPU. The product design and source code are proprietary, so please take our word for it that this flag disables everything."

There was a blackhat talk on embedding malware in SMM and triggering it with a magic number written to a register to escalate the process privileges. [0] So there will always be suspicion of special triggers to re-enable the black box that you turned "off"

I think there is a very slim chance that Intel and AMD can regain credibility when it concerns the IME/PSP.

Especially after it emerged Intel created a special ME disabled mode intended for US agency customers. [1]

[0] https://youtu.be/lR0nh-TdpVg

[1] https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/08/30/how_to_disable_intel_m...

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#46

Post by qznc »

turblety wrote: post #12
factorialboy wrote: post #2

Can someone ELI5 why Intel needs an OS in the processor?

Also remember while a case can be made (although in my opinion a very weak one) for why you need a separate computer running beside your main processor, the main issue people have is that you: - Can not see what that operating system is doing - Can not read the source code for that operating system - Can not stop or manage that operating system - Can not upload/change/edit anything to do with that operating system

There are a lot more processors in your computer. Every hard disk has a computer [0] and your power adapter might too [1]. Seriously, who knows how many general purpose chips are inside a computer these days?

[0] http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-d...

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#47

Post by adtac »

lottin wrote: post #26
gsich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this can be a useful feature. (Compare to ILO on servers)

They don't need to remove it, adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice.

Even better would be to offer two classes of products: one with an IME-like controller and one without. They could push the non-IME one to consumers and the IME one to server/enterprise customers.

Just turning it off is hardly a guarantee that it'll stay off forever. Remove the entire component physically and I'll know it'll never be running in the background.

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#48

Post by gsich »

kogepathic wrote: post #45
lottin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to remove it, adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice.

> adding the possibility to turn it off should suffice. How could Intel/AMD reasonably communicate this to customers and have it taken at face value? "Here's a flag to disable this black box we ship in every CPU. The product design and source code are proprietary, so please take our word for it that this flag disables everything." There was a blackhat talk on embedding malware in SMM and triggering it with a magic nu…

Turning it off/on would have to be a jumper setting on the mainboard. BIOS won't do any good, as this is more a "software" setting. However, a jumper might have the same effect...

Re: MINIX – The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel

#49

Post by sacheendra »

vidarh wrote: post #36

One of the most popular, not the . Finding precise numbers is hard, but in 2016, IDC reported worldwide PC sales of ca. 65 million units in Q1, and the market has been in decline (the Q1 2016 numbers were at 2007 levels). Meanwhile Android phones alone account for more than that every month, and while Intel does sell some CPUs for tablets etc. and other markets, it's peanuts compared to their PC sales. So at least An…

They qualify their stand by adding "... shipping today on modern Intel-based computers"
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