Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm • Hacker News Board

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#221

Post by chesimov » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:33 PM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #100

danharaj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an accident.

Putin's utility function maximization calculus is clearly benefited from undermining his own people, and there is a lot of evidence to support that. The US plutocracy is no different. Also a lot of evidence: the actions of the NSA, CIA, War on Drugs, police militarizarion, military-industrial-congressional-complex... All cannot be explained otherwise. I think in the US, they're just a lot more clever at it. However c…

Here in South Africa a sophisticated campaign to inflame racial tensions was recently exposed. Notably a UK firm (Bell Pottinger) was hired to achieve this. To cut a long (but fascinating) story short the underlying aim is to fast-track a nuclear power station deal (9 units) with Russia that would put SA in its debt to the tune of >$100 billion dollars. This is common knowledge, reported in local newspapers at this stage. Nobody wants the power stations (nor do we need them); many are calling for free college education instead. Guess what we are going to get.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#222

Post by nickbauman » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:33 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #154

nickbauman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terms "capitalism" and for that matter "communism" are labels that have lost almost all meaning. The USSR was a dictatorship as is Russia today. "Capitalism" was a term coined by Karl Marx as a critique of 19th century industrial England. Calling yourself a "capitalist" is like calling yourself a "alienist". It's an archaic term and imprecise at best.

Don’t do that. We know exactly what capitalism is and what communism is. Some of us lived under both. And the fact that communism is the favorite system of dictatorship is no coincidence: communism itself is an autocracy.

I believe you are misinformed. You're describing "communist dictatorship". There are other forms of Communism in the world. From the Israeli Kibbutz to the Mondragón Corporation, the gamut of communism as implemented is wide.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#223

Post by thaumaturgy » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:33 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #133

aylmao wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always disappointing to find people on the web who don't believe in basic human rights. Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example?

> Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? You have the right to it, but you're not entitled to it. To me, having the right to do something means you can't be prosecuted for doing it. It doesn't mean that society must help you.

Ok, let's set aside for a moment your personal politics, since compassion is clearly not a concept you're likely to grasp right now.

As a practical matter, what do you think happens to any society that suffers a class divide severe enough that (a) the majority of the citizenry ends up in the underclass and (b) being in the underclass sucks badly enough to really piss people off?

Societies need to take care of their citizens and ensure they receive, if nothing else, fair treatment under law and approximately equal opportunity. Otherwise, you get behavior like this: https://youtu.be/HL45pVdsRvE?t=60

What a lot of people on both sides don't seem to be getting is that Trump getting elected was an expression of bipartisan anger and frustration on the part of voters. Their anger and frustration may have created an even worse result, depending on whether you think Trump is going to ease or worsen inequality in this country, but guess what? Stupid things are exactly the result of festering anger and resentment.

There are a bunch of folks out there -- maybe you're one of them, maybe not, I dunno -- who kind of wish for some kind of implosion of American society. They think they'll come out ahead, because they've got guns or they live in the middle of nowhere. But, they won't come out ahead, they'll lose. Everyone will lose.

So you can pontificate about the ideological merits of extreme Libertarianism all you want, but in practice it works exactly as well as extreme socialism.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#224

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

VHRanger wrote: post #110

noobermin wrote: post #79

Since there are no top level comments putting this out for probably obvious reasons, here is a supportive comment for the article. This is what people feel in their guts when they drive out on tattered roads and avoid going to the hospital even though they are sick, when they don't have a real increase in wages but are working longer hours. They have the sense that something isn't right, that there are two sets of ru…

It's important to note that, in the US, worker __compensation__ has increased steadily. However, __wages__ have not. A lot of this has to do with employer provided health insurance and ballooning healthcare costs, which are fairly specific problems to the US. Housing and education costs have also increased much faster than overall worker compensation.

[deleted]

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#225

Post by lr4444lr » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #26

It's funny how the people of Russia and the US are framed as being such great enemies when in reality many of the rulers of both countries have more common interests with each other than they do with the citizens of their own nations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGC42gUSOZY

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#226

Post by halfteatree » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

igivanov wrote: post #218

vonnik wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine has been working on this same angle since Trump was elected. Politico covered his work in August: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/20/trump-bombshells-ro... His website is here: Weird money in, weird money out https://ragepath.org/weird-money-in-weird-money-out And below is his working hypothesis: We've documented Trump's relations with a variety of Soviet and Russian individuals and organizatio…

>We've documented Trump's relations with a variety of Soviet and Russian individuals and organizations a telling hypothesis, now we know who to blame Mr Trump on. I am sorry to tell you but your friend is doing it on the dime of someone pushing the current hysterical Russophobia. Either that or he is delusional.

>someone who believes in things I don't agree on is either working on some hysterical dime or delusional

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

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Post by aslkdjaslkdj » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #168

ianai wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clamor for justice behind Donald Trump though. He’s used the mass’ frustrations to his own end, and they loved it enough to vote him into power.

To be fair a lot were clamoring behind Bernie Sanders. But Hillary bent the DNC to do some fairly corrupt shit and so you got Trump. The democrats are still trapped by this neolib-technocrat-west-wing fantasy-land where the best person at debating wins regardless of the fact they don’t actually stand for anything.

What corrupt shit? What specific action did the DNC do that caused Bernie to lose?

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

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Post by anigbrowl » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #192

andrepd wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a repellent atitude. "Fuck you got mine" in all its glory.

I'd rather sum it as "live and let die"

Oh, so edgy. I bet you'll howl the minute you think your property rights are being infringed, though.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#229

Post by Buttes » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #168

ianai wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clamor for justice behind Donald Trump though. He’s used the mass’ frustrations to his own end, and they loved it enough to vote him into power.

To be fair a lot were clamoring behind Bernie Sanders. But Hillary bent the DNC to do some fairly corrupt shit and so you got Trump. The democrats are still trapped by this neolib-technocrat-west-wing fantasy-land where the best person at debating wins regardless of the fact they don’t actually stand for anything.

>they don’t actually stand for anything.

I've met lots of young women who adore Hillary and would beg to differ. The woman is a feminist icon.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#230

Post by weirdstuff » Sun, Nov 05, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #112

noobermin wrote: post #79

Since there are no top level comments putting this out for probably obvious reasons, here is a supportive comment for the article. This is what people feel in their guts when they drive out on tattered roads and avoid going to the hospital even though they are sick, when they don't have a real increase in wages but are working longer hours. They have the sense that something isn't right, that there are two sets of ru…

They clamor for justice behind Donald Trump though. He’s used the mass’ frustrations to his own end, and they loved it enough to vote him into power.

I know Trump voters, the majority of whom don't like Trump at all.

Their reasoning: "Why delay the inevitable? How else to wake up the country but to elect a disaster? As things get worse we're ready as we'll ever be."

(FYI: I'm in Michigan where enough of us held back our Clinton vote to send a message that we need a progressive non-corporatist. Margin of victory for Trump was smaller than empty presidential sections. It's over in Michigan for the DNC.)