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Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

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Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#181

Post by mjw1007 »

haaen wrote: post #103

Comment from economist Tyler Cowen when the same group of journalists released the Panama papers: Was it wrong to hack and leak the Panama Papers? Let’s say a group of criminal defense lawyers kept a database of their confidential conversations with their clients. That would include clients charged with murder, robbery, DUI, drug abuse, and so on. In turn, a hacker would break into that database and post the informat…

That's a splendidly clear demonstration of the double standard:

He believes that when people are trying to minimise their taxes, the only question is whether what they do is legal; "we" are supposed not to disapprove so long as that is the case.

But when journalists report information they have obtained, the idea of ethics is suddenly back. For some reason he doesn't expect "us" to think "We should expect journalists to publish things that will sell newspapers; so long as it isn't illegal we shouldn't disapprove".

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#182

Post by halfteatree »

grondilu wrote: post #161
dagss wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Justice" means upholding laws? Most of the world has signed conventions that makes basic livelihood a right -- and puts it on the state to ensure this. Perhaps you don't agree with these laws and conventions. But please consider that the very concept of "ownership" and "property" is also something that is only upheld by laws. Also on a pragmatic level, why should those without property acknowledge and support a stat…

> to social unrest / revolutions that causes problems for rich people as well. Some problems for sure, but it's probably manageable. Poverty is not and should never be an excuse for crime. Rich people can build as many prisons as necessary.

That went pretty well in venezuela.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#183

Post by berbec »

mindcrime wrote: post #88
anigbrowl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, then rent is also theft.

Just answer the question: "how do we fund the things that are currently funded by taxation, which are actually necessary / desirable, without using violence or the threat of violence?" C'mon, we're hackers... we can do better than relying on violence and aggression. What happened to the idea that we could apply our intellects, reason, logic, and rational thinking, and improve on the old way of doing things? I mean, i…

"how do we fund the things that are currently funded by taxation, which are actually necessary / desirable, without using violence or the threat of violence?"

Firstly, set up a gradually percentage-based system of mandatory contributions, based loosely on income, to be one's expected annual payment. Add in a unhealth dose of special-interest initiated loopholes. Next, split the whole entirely in half so you fall under an entirely different system if you earn your money working a 9-5. Finally set up a section of the government dedicated to enforcement of these statutes, with financial and penal penalties for violation.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#184

Post by andrepd »

ZeroCool2u wrote: post #134
grondilu wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my humble opinion, the job of the government is absolutely not to give money to the poorest people, not even to maintain a "basic level of livelyhood". I'm also fairly certain this has nothing to do with the concept of justice.

Then what is the role of government, in your opinion?

Probably anything that is needed to ensure and maintain his status, such as property laws and protection against bodily harm, and not any thing else.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#185

Post by olivermarks »

At this point in history I'd argue that nation states have never been weaker. The idea that 'Russia' is behind anything is somewhat erroneous: powerful mobsters/oligarchs who have been enriched by looting Russia and other nation states and float their money offshore are 'Russia' in this context. That money is laundered into the western world. The concept of a capitalist 'empire' that knows no nation state is often discussed by excellent journalists such as Abby Martin. The people who make up this 'empire' - a mix of Saudis, Zionists, Asian oligarchs, old euro money and various other oligarchs and mobsters arguably run the world....

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#186

Post by TeMPOraL »

mc32 wrote: post #174
nickbauman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terms "capitalism" and for that matter "communism" are labels that have lost almost all meaning. The USSR was a dictatorship as is Russia today. "Capitalism" was a term coined by Karl Marx as a critique of 19th century industrial England. Calling yourself a "capitalist" is like calling yourself a "alienist". It's an archaic term and imprecise at best.

Terms and their meanings evolve over time to match usage.

When the general usage gets dumber and dumber, the terms should be avoided to retain precision in discussion.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#187

Post by rwnspace »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #171
vonnik wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine has been working on this same angle since Trump was elected. Politico covered his work in August: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/20/trump-bombshells-ro... His website is here: Weird money in, weird money out https://ragepath.org/weird-money-in-weird-money-out And below is his working hypothesis: We've documented Trump's relations with a variety of Soviet and Russian individuals and organizatio…

"But he borrowed 160 mln against the building" This is where your argument collapses. The building dramatically increased in value - that's why he was able to borrow so much against it. That's the real estate game - and it's legit.

I suppose it's here I should make the customary Georgist call for Land Value Tax.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#188

Post by andrepd »

grondilu wrote: post #167
aylmao wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always disappointing to find people on the web who don't believe in basic human rights. Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example?

> Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example? Because of this thing called reality. If the circumstances of your birth are unfortunate, that's sad, but it does not have to be other people's problem.

What a repellent atitude. "Fuck you got mine" in all its glory.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#189

Post by kelnos »

grondilu wrote: post #133
aylmao wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always disappointing to find people on the web who don't believe in basic human rights. Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example?

> Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? You have the right to it, but you're not entitled to it. To me, having the right to do something means you can't be prosecuted for doing it. It doesn't mean that society must help you.

Then you're using "right" in a very different way from what we expect around here.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#190

Post by vasilipupkin »

rwnspace wrote: post #187
vasilipupkin wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But he borrowed 160 mln against the building" This is where your argument collapses. The building dramatically increased in value - that's why he was able to borrow so much against it. That's the real estate game - and it's legit.

I suppose it's here I should make the customary Georgist call for Land Value Tax.

Yeah, but it wasn't plain land, there was a building on it.

the genius who downvoted this comment - please google how land value tax works.

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