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Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

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Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#191

Post by icelancer »

ianai wrote: post #112
noobermin wrote: post #79

Since there are no top level comments putting this out for probably obvious reasons, here is a supportive comment for the article. This is what people feel in their guts when they drive out on tattered roads and avoid going to the hospital even though they are sick, when they don't have a real increase in wages but are working longer hours. They have the sense that something isn't right, that there are two sets of ru…

They clamor for justice behind Donald Trump though. He’s used the mass’ frustrations to his own end, and they loved it enough to vote him into power.

They clamor for justice behind anyone who will promise it to them, authoritatively, with or without merit. Trump is a symptom of the underlying problem.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#192

Post by grondilu »

andrepd wrote: post #188
grondilu wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example? Because of this thing called reality. If the circumstances of your birth are unfortunate, that's sad, but it does not have to be other people's problem.

What a repellent atitude. "Fuck you got mine" in all its glory.

I'd rather sum it as "live and let die"

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#193

Post by kelnos »

grondilu wrote: post #161
dagss wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Justice" means upholding laws? Most of the world has signed conventions that makes basic livelihood a right -- and puts it on the state to ensure this. Perhaps you don't agree with these laws and conventions. But please consider that the very concept of "ownership" and "property" is also something that is only upheld by laws. Also on a pragmatic level, why should those without property acknowledge and support a stat…

> to social unrest / revolutions that causes problems for rich people as well. Some problems for sure, but it's probably manageable. Poverty is not and should never be an excuse for crime. Rich people can build as many prisons as necessary.

How can you possibly believe that a society where a large percent of people are in prison is a healthy society?

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#194

Post by sgt101 »

dqpb wrote: post #150
aylmao wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always disappointing to find people on the web who don't believe in basic human rights. Don't we all have the right to a basic level of livelihood? Why should the family I was born to determine wether I have clean water to drink or not, for example?

Rights only exist in the context of a system that enforces or supports them.

I don't agree. Some rights are fundamental - the people who had their lives stolen by trans Atlantic slaving had their lives stolen. Their rights were violated. The fact that the social and political system of the time conspired to facilitate that doesn't make it less true.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#195

Post by alexqgb »

mrleiter wrote: post #33

It's the wrong angle. One should not look at corporations as the moral saviours. As Supreme Court Judge Learned Hand once said: "Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing 851*851 sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, n…

Whether they're enforced exactions of voluntary contributions is not the Court's call to make. Some people are happy to pay their taxes, recognizing them as the perfectly reasonable cost of living in a functioning civil society (which, not coincidentally, is seen as the basis of their security and prosperity).

Others, for whom this connection may not be so clear, take a more exploitative view of the public sphere, in which their own role is all take and no give. They may see taxation as forced extraction, but that view is hardly shared by everyone. Moreover, were they allowed to act on this view freely, the public sphere would surely collapse - which a clear majority clearly recognizes.

In this regard, tax law is no different from laws against, say, murder. Most people are internally resistant to the thought of killing others. But the law still exists because "most" isn't "all". In cases of extreme anti-social behavior, the few - if allowed to run riot - really can secure tyrannical domination of the many (classic example: the mob in Sicily).

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#196

Post by TeMPOraL »

rothbardrand wrote: post #46
cisanti wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But corporations do like to paint themselves as moral and fighting for you! Another thing is why people believe in it... All in all, there are many things that are not illegal to do, but definitely immoral. Such tax schemes sure are immoral in my eyes, I'm a hard-core capitalist, but no way your average Joe stands a chance at "optimizing" taxes. People need to call out these companies more, but it's easy to deceive t…

You invoked morality. The moral calculus is pretty clear to me: I’ll take the gay loving advancer of technology over governments stealing money to use it to blow up people any day. Apple has the moral high ground, and that ground is higher the less taxes they pay. Remember military spending is far more than roads.

Apple only exists because taxes - yes, including military spending - allows them to exist. You don't have high-tech corporations in failed states. Stable society, highly-educated people, solid economy - all of this is enabled and secured by a well-functioning state.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#197

Post by jellicle »

VHRanger wrote: post #110
noobermin wrote: post #79

Since there are no top level comments putting this out for probably obvious reasons, here is a supportive comment for the article. This is what people feel in their guts when they drive out on tattered roads and avoid going to the hospital even though they are sick, when they don't have a real increase in wages but are working longer hours. They have the sense that something isn't right, that there are two sets of ru…

It's important to note that, in the US, worker __compensation__ has increased steadily. However, __wages__ have not. A lot of this has to do with employer provided health insurance and ballooning healthcare costs, which are fairly specific problems to the US. Housing and education costs have also increased much faster than overall worker compensation.

A lot of that is largely fictitious. If an employer health insurer doubles their prices, supposedly my compensation has increased a lot, but in fact, I'm poorer, because my share of the health insurance premium has increased and my coverage has not. The only one getting richer is the insurer.

Are we going to argue then that worker compensation in all the many countries with universal government-paid health insurance is also going through the roof? But my health insurance is identical whether I work or not...

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#198

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

mtremsal wrote: post #129
VHRanger wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that, in the US, worker __compensation__ has increased steadily. However, __wages__ have not. A lot of this has to do with employer provided health insurance and ballooning healthcare costs, which are fairly specific problems to the US. Housing and education costs have also increased much faster than overall worker compensation.

Couldn't you argue that an increase in compensation driven by 'ballooning healthcare costs' wouldn't actually improve the standard of living of workers? Comparing wages (rather than total compensation) to cost of living would seem more pertinent in this regard.

He's pointing out how there are many facets to the problems we see in America. Healthcare, education, and housing in many areas take massive chunks out of people's livelihood.

I hear a lot about the politics of the poor and the rich, but not about how to actually solve these problems we see in our economic system today.

There's something rotten in Denmark.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#200

Post by paranoia101 »

xexers wrote: post #3
coolgoose wrote: post #2

And as always, nothing is going to happen.

While it's true that about 99% of people listed in the panama papers got off scott free... There were still some serious consequences for some... and those consequences might just be enough to deter.

"about 99% of people listed in the panama papers got off scott free"...

...and the journalist who triggered the investigation got killed! Global elites, fuck yeah!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb...

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