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Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

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Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#21

Post by untog »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #8
gortok wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar issue very recently with webpack. I was attempting to use its bundling capabilities to bundle css and js files for a web application. Believe it or not, the very simple end-user use case of bundling css is not a part of the core library, nor is it well demonstrated or explained in the docs. After a few hours, I simply gave up and continued to use gulp. We don’t treat user time as precious because our…

Does this not work? https://github.com/webpack/webpack/blob/master/examples/css-... https://webpack.js.org/loaders/css-loader/#src/components/Si... Note: examples at bottom of second link, found it by searching "css" in the doc site

Having to use two loaders (one being loaded by totally non-standard syntax inside the other loader), a plugin (that specifies the output filename nowhere near where the others are specified) and then using a JavaScript require() function to include a CSS file is utterly demented.

I get that's how Webpack users are used to doing it, but when you're new to it (or just coming back to it from a different build system) it's the very definition of insanity.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#22

Post by v4tab »

techdragon wrote: post #4
pandemi wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you hire programmers like that?

By not hiring a JavaScript developer. More seriously... I've just today finished updating some C++ code that integrates the Chromium Embedded Framework into Unreal Engine 4 to work with current versions of both CEF and UE4 and even building all this, Separate CEF sub process binaries without a strait forward make && make install, and debug builds of the entire unreal engine editor to track down CEF initialisation err…

The task that requires JavaScript/React/Redux/WebPack/Babel is enormously complex. On the other hand writing a server side process in Node is a delight and in my experience an order of magnitude easier than writing the equivalent code C++ or C. Or than writing it in the language that-must-not-be-named but also starts with a "Java". My conclusion is that the language is less of an issue than the task.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#23

Post by aaron-lebo »

untog wrote: post #21
aaron-lebo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this not work? https://github.com/webpack/webpack/blob/master/examples/css-... https://webpack.js.org/loaders/css-loader/#src/components/Si... Note: examples at bottom of second link, found it by searching "css" in the doc site

Having to use two loaders (one being loaded by totally non-standard syntax inside the other loader ), a plugin (that specifies the output filename nowhere near where the others are specified) and then using a JavaScript require() function to include a CSS file is utterly demented. I get that's how Webpack users are used to doing it, but when you're new to it (or just coming back to it from a different build system) i…

Maybe, but it's understandable after five minutes and you literally have code you can copy and paste. I've seen much worse in basically every other language. We had a 5k line project, after the first day of setup, we've had to touch the webpack config once or twice.

Also, feel free to disagree about the CSS, I think it's a very intuitive way of including assets.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#25

Post by travmatt »

acemarke wrote: post #19
travmatt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which breaking changes are you referring too? I remember updating some configs in the jump from 1 -> 2, but none since then

Webpack 1 -> 2 had several breaking changes, primarily around loader configuration syntax. The migration guide at https://webpack.js.org/guides/migrating/ covers the changes. 2 -> 3 was primarily internal changes, with little to no migration steps needed other than bumping the installed version.

Yes, I’m well aware - im asking the basis for the belief that these constitute “constant relentless breaking changes”

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#26

Post by jondubois »

It's a great project but I don't understand why they need so much money for the future. It's a bundling tool. Wasn't it supposed to be a transition project? Won't Webpack get replaced by simpler things like ES6 module import and HTTP2 push?

It was the same thing with CoffeeScript; it inspired some neat features in JavaScript but it has made itself obsolete; the ecosystem caught up. It fulfilled its purpose nonetheless.

Webpack would probably have benefited more from this funding a few years ago.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#27

Post by hinkley »

techdragon wrote: post #4
pandemi wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you hire programmers like that?

By not hiring a JavaScript developer. More seriously... I've just today finished updating some C++ code that integrates the Chromium Embedded Framework into Unreal Engine 4 to work with current versions of both CEF and UE4 and even building all this, Separate CEF sub process binaries without a strait forward make && make install, and debug builds of the entire unreal engine editor to track down CEF initialisation err…

I stopped using Ember because they broke my side project four times in as many months.

I don’t think you should hold that one up as a paragon.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#28

Post by linkmotif »

hguhghuff wrote: post #2

Maybe they could employ a programmer who knows how to turn unbelievably complex software into incredibly simple software that doesn't include constant relentless breaking changes.

People leave nonsense comments like this just to spread FUD are so irritating. I upgraded 1–>2 a while back and it took a few changes based on informative error messages. People like this made me dread the upgrade thinking it would be complicated. It was basically painless. I’m on version 3–something now and have encountered no other breaking changes. It’s a great tool.

I guess people who leave comments like this have literally 0 threshold for any kind of error message and just want all the interfaces they ever use to be static and permanent. I’m not a webpack fanboy. I don’t like JavaScript. But I don’t go around posting nonsense FUD about “relentless changes” that don’t exist. Sorry buddy, you’re full of it.

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#29

Post by acemarke »

jondubois wrote: post #26

It's a great project but I don't understand why they need so much money for the future. It's a bundling tool. Wasn't it supposed to be a transition project? Won't Webpack get replaced by simpler things like ES6 module import and HTTP2 push? It was the same thing with CoffeeScript; it inspired some neat features in JavaScript but it has made itself obsolete; the ecosystem caught up. It fulfilled its purpose nonetheles…

No, HTTP2 doesn't just replace bundling, and definitely not what Webpack does.

Based on what I've read, sending a few bundled chunks instead of many individual module files will still generally have less overhead. In addition, Webpack's ability to load and transform other file formats like images and styles is something that simply requesting ES modules over HTTP2 can't deal with. Webpack's ability to code-split an application is also important.

Tobias Koppers, the main Webpack developer, wrote an article last year on how Webpack and HTTP2 relate: https://medium.com/webpack/webpack-http-2-7083ec3f3ce6 .

It's also worth noting that Tobias had only been able to work on Webpack intermittently for the last couple years, until this recent funding allowed him to work on it full-time. Tobias has been writing reports on what he's been doing [0]. Also, grants and full-time development is enabling the team to work on projects like integrating WebAssembly support directly into Webpack [1].

[0] https://medium.com/webpack/the-chunk-graph-algorithm-week-26...

[1] https://medium.com/webpack/webpack-freelancing-log-book-week...

Re: Funding Open Source: How Webpack Reached $400k+/year

#30

Post by stevebmark »

The state of Webpack does not reflect a 400k/year budget. The docs, API, source code, ecosystem... so happy to hear people making software engineering money get a second salary to keep doing this.

We're all waiting for the thing that will replace Webpack so we don't have to keep using it. Maybe we should just go and make it.

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