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Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

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Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#431

Post by Veen »

zdkl wrote: post #409
macdiddy wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really fair. Those people are simply using the current rules to their advantage to help them make a living.

I don't like this stereotyped answer but isn't this what "move fast and break things" was supposed to be about? Why did we become afraid to diverge from the norm and trends on the internet? From a consumer standpoint, uniformisation makes content parsing easier in the sense that you know what to expect and how to compare content more readily but why do people not go on a limb and take more "risk" in differentiating c…

> Why did we become afraid to diverge from the norm and trends on the internet?

Because “we” wanted to get rich, or at least make a living.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#432

Post by coldtea »

anigbrowl wrote: post #322
krapp wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all video is, or is meant to be, about maximizing information density. Mere entertainment isn't "user hostile" if people enjoy it.

Sure, but I thought we were talking about the context of documentary /instructional /information videos. For entertainment that's fine, I enjoy cartoons, drama etc. as much as anyone.

>Sure, but I thought we were talking about the context of documentary /instructional /information videos.

Even in that context, amateurs and people starting out with a subject, might prefer to have less information density and have things explained in easy steps -- instead of lots of stuff they don't get crammed in 5 minutes.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#433

Post by coldtea »

woogley wrote: post #282
coldtea wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of the providers of "content" know they have little to provide, so they drag it out in video form, saving the actual information for the last 10% of the video (if ever!) This I find incredibly hostile Isn't that a kind of entitlement? I might…

It's not entitlement, it's just an opinion. OP said they move on to a different source with their preferred format.

Well, entitlement is just an opinion too -- surely it's not an objective fact that someone is entitled (except we're talking about a king, an inheritance, and so on).

Specifically, it's the opinion that something must be a certain way because you want it like that.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#434

Post by coldtea »

woogley wrote: post #363
s73ver_ wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying it's inconvenient, or that you'd prefer text is an opinion. But that's not what OP said; they said it's hostile. That is an entitlement.

No, entitlement is demanding all sources conform to OP's preference

It's enough having a problem with things others put out (and for free) not being to your specifications to consider it entitlement.

Besides, one can't make actual demands when they have no power.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#436

Post by TeMPOraL »

macdiddy wrote: post #394
axedwool wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want people who produce videos like that to continue to make videos. I want them to go out of business.

That's not really fair. Those people are simply using the current rules to their advantage to help them make a living.

That is entirely fair. You are not entitled to a business model, especially not to a business model that is malicious.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#437

Post by TeMPOraL »

zdkl wrote: post #411
chii wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people hate paywalls .... An automatic cryptocurrency micropayment system and yet they are willing to expend more electricity, at a huge inefficiency, to produce vastly less monetary value to the site. I would rather just pay the 1cent.

Yes the inefficiency in mining coins and the hefty fees impact the game theoretic value of this method but it doesn't mean there is no value in that form of compensation. If the choice is between a barren wasteland of providers removing useful content from open access or waiting on 1% of users to subsidise the rest or giving the option to users to pay while they're accessing content, I'll take some form of choice to…

The inefficiency makes it too unprofitable to even bother with it for small actors. What am I going to do with the fraction of a fraction of a cent my homepage mines over one year?

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#438

Post by TeMPOraL »

zdkl wrote: post #413
ACow_Adonis wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you do the equivalent of hanging a sign on the front door saying "please come in". Which I would argue is the equivalent of what you are doing by putting your content on a communication protocol designed to make it freely available. Indeed, such behavior is reminiscent of one of the oldest tourist scams in the book, no doubt experienced by anyone who has traveled the world in any amount. That is to say, the ma…

I believe the general thought here is more to have the mining (and content) behind a good old paywall, featuring prominently your different options, with "mine for access" just one of the available options.

Well, implemented that way it would be honest. I'll happily commend people doing that even though personally, I would most likely not use their site (and especially the cryptocoin option, which is a hure resource waste).

Honesty breeds honesty. I disable ad blocking on sites that ask nicely and don't spam with ads too much.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#439

Post by kagamine »

QAPereo wrote: post #396
JoshTriplett wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is reinforcing that stereotype important to you?

“When did you stop beating your wife.”

I never beat her. The question you were aiming for is "Do you still hit your wife?"

It demands a yes/no answer and thus always appears to be an admission of guilt. Your question leaves it open to answer any way you like.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#440

Post by TeMPOraL »

joepie91_ wrote: post #150
QAPereo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on this. Honestly at this point, if the information is only contained within a video, I skip it and move on Same, and I've noticed this trend for quite a while now. Text can always be trivially copied, even by a granny, and inserted into an email or forum. A video? You can have a DRM arms race with video. Videos also prevent skimming, and demand consumption of all content.

> Videos also prevent skimming, and demand consumption of all content. To an advertiser, that's a feature. This is half of the problem.

And that's why I keep repeating that advertisers are enemies of users, and - from the POV of users - malicious actors. They literally benefit from making life difficult for you and wasting the finite amount of time you have on this planet.

This needs to get into people's head - as long as the incentives are so misaligned, there's no chance for peace here.

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