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Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

neustadt.fr

311–320 of 531 posts

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? That's stringing together a bunch of things that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The primary motivation of many "creators" is to gain more income; to that end, they do not need to produce user-friendly content, they just need to produce content that earns money . That doesn't even require maximizing readership. Aside from that, whether one person is being hostile to another person has absolutely…

No, the idea that something can be "hostile" hinges on the idea that you were entitled to it in the other form to begin with. Someone not providing content in the form you wish is an inconvenience at best.

I could be hostile to you right now, and you wouldn't have even requested anything from me. Hostility has nothing to do with what someone owes someone else.

Have you ever seen the soup Nazi from Seinfeld? Would you say he's not hostile because no body is owed his soup?

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#312
post #8

This is a good an informative essay. However, there's another element of "user-hostile" that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it in my haste?) -- that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user. It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of t…

>that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user

You seem to be arguing against the content being served by websites, and by extension, the freedom of the owners of those sites to choose to serve content you don't like. I would agree with you as far as DRM and javascript dark patterns go, when sites try to take control over the browser in ways that are harmful to users' freedom, but if someone wants to serve video or ads (useless as they are) instead of plain text, then that's entirely their right, because it's their server, and they get to decide what goes on it, not you. It's not user hostility, it's merely a decision with which you personally disagree.

Of course, once the response gets to your browser you're free to block, filter or do whatever you like to it, but user freedom is only half the equation here. Publisher freedom is important as well.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#313
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think we cross a line when we begin making demands about the content itself. If you want content created to your specifications, you can produce it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Video content isn't "user hostile" any more than a movie you don't like is "user hostile".

Video that is deliberately structured to keep people watching without delivering much information is absolutely user hostile. That's why TV is full of shows with bullshit cliffhangers leading up to ad breaks and so on. Stringing users along in order to monetize the content is somewhat voluntary but easily tips into being exploitative.

Not all video is, or is meant to be, about maximizing information density. Mere entertainment isn't "user hostile" if people enjoy it.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#314
post #26

The part where the author tries to tie Brexit and the election of Donald Trump to the user-hostile web is bonkers. People, you have to understand this: There exists a large number of others out there who desperately want government reformed, want more localized control over their lives, and who voted accordingly. It wasn't some trick pulled on them by corporations or Russians manipulating social media. I realize that…

And you think voting for Trump or Brexit will deliver that? XD XD XD

Sorry for being so blunt, but you got played. I remember living in the UK prior to deeper EU integration, and it sucked. Every country had its own standards for modems and used it as a protectionist tool to keep 'foreign' technology out or at least much more expensive. You didn't have real local control, you had much more centralized control that was not structured in the interests of the general public. It was a great number for the politicians: blame anything you don't like on Brussels (even if it is self-evidently good for consumers), take credit for anything you can hang a patriotic label on, and centralize as much as possible so the people in the national government can be the big fish in the small pond, while pretending to be the heroic defenders of the pond against foreign sharks.

you see the same thing in the US - conservative politicians rail against 'big government in Washington DC' while simultaneously passing legislation that limits the ability of municipalities to govern themselves, eg by creating public fiberoptic networks or setting policies that give people more rights than the people in the state capitol wish.

I could also make critiques of liberal politicians who to some extent do the same thing at the city vs. the neighborhood level; I don't want to be partisan. But if you voted for Brexit or Trump because you believed you, the little person with no political power, would be better off then you have been fleeced and told that your political enemies are attacking you with a wind machine.

It's not the freedom-minded people who want to shut down free speech

Oh yes, those nice freedom-minded people who also want to engage in ethnic cleansing and have neo-nazis on speed dial. It's freedom for themselves, not you. See for yourself: create a few sockpuppets, go to /pol/ or wherever you like to hang out, and try expressing some polite mild opinions out of step with the rest of the forum.

PS look into how Cambridge Analytica operates and tell me these people are trying to maximize your freedom. To them you're just a vote and a voice to be harvested. You'll probably hear more about this in days to come as Robert Mercer is frantically re-organizing his financial holdings.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a better solution for ensuring the video's producers continue to receive funding to make more videos?

Mining cryptocurrencies while the current tab is in the foreground. (supposing a suitable GPU/ASIC-proof cryptocurrency is available)

That's even scummier than most of the ad targeting stuff out there.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#316
post #26

The part where the author tries to tie Brexit and the election of Donald Trump to the user-hostile web is bonkers. People, you have to understand this: There exists a large number of others out there who desperately want government reformed, want more localized control over their lives, and who voted accordingly. It wasn't some trick pulled on them by corporations or Russians manipulating social media. I realize that…

> "People, you have to understand this: There exists a large number of others out there who desperately want government reformed, want more localized control over their lives, and who voted accordingly. It wasn't some trick pulled on them by corporations or Russians manipulating social media. I realize that may be hard to understand, but it is the truth!" Thank you for taking time to consider the effects of media spi…

If media spin can affect people, why couldn't a corporation or foreign government do the same? I don't understand why the facts that that a large number of people want government reform and that corporate and government forces were spending money to influence the election cannot exist side by side.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#317
post #235
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on this. Honestly at this point, if the information is only contained within a video, I skip it and move on[1]. (I usually leave video in the browser crippled, only turning it on when I actually want to watch something.) [1] The trend of support docs for enterprise software going video is horrible, stupid, and a negative mark when I'm evaluating products. If someone has to spend hours of eyebleed rewindi…

My office provides a license for Pluralsight. I have found some courses with high quality content and interesting information, and it's really useful to have it all in one place. BUT, especially with programming, I find video to be a really challenging medium. It's so much more useful to scan for things you don't know or context of examples and spend some time digesting, or just playing around with sample code. Not e…

One thing I loved about RailsCasts was that I could watch the video and then go back to an ASCIICast to actually review the source if I needed to implement something like it. While I don't do rails development anymore I truly miss the days of cutting my teeth on the web with Ryan.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#318
post #301
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a lot of podcasts have ads, but ads aren't what I'm objecting to. The modern web doesn't suck because of ads. It sucks because of the technologies around ensuring you look at the ads, around sharing your behaviors as you look at the ads, etc. Any podcast player I can imagine anyone would ever use has a convenient way to skip ads, and the neither the presence of the ads themselves nor my decision to skip t…

> and the neither the presence of the ads themselves nor my decision to skip them degrades the experience of listening to the podcast I beg to differ. I see the ability to skip ads immediately, at any time, as a fundamental user right (and websites that try to deny this right should be prosecute by consumer protection). In other words, this is not the distinction between good versus bad quality. It is the distinction…

I cannot agree with this sentiment. You're basically demanding that these creators work for you, for free.

If you choose to skip the ads, then how should the creators be compensated for the content that you consumed?

"With regard to quality, it is a huge jump upwards if a podcast has no ads at all, nowhere, not even hidden or implicit. It is a really noticeable difference if the whole audio simply doesn't care about pleasing any stakeholder besides its audience."

You know what else is a huge jump in quality? Actually being able to continue to do the show.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#319

This is good, but simplistic. Firstly the downfall in the geocities-web came in many phases: 1. Spam Email Phase 2. Phishing / Nigerian phase 3. Popup phase 4. Autoplaying Flash/ActiveX phase 5. Pagerank phase (forums being ruined until rel=nofollow) Now google, previously the main gateway to discovery, is pretty much useless for discovering new non-commercial content. The way this could go away is only from a market…

Notice how these all have something in common...

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#320
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s easier to make money from videos because they people actually like them?

No, the videos are distracting and seize the user's attention for ad delivery. Imagine that I followed you around all day bumping into you, waiting for you to drop some money and then walk away without noticing, so I could pick it up. That's annoying and hostile to you, but profitable to be with sufficient automation. That's the modern commercial web.

sigh No, no it isn't. Not even close.

The fact of the matter is, people want to be paid for the stuff they create. That's how they're enabled to create more of that stuff. We learned a long, long time ago that people didn't want to outright pay for things. That doesn't leave many options.

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