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Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

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Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#241

Post by dredmorbius »

Thriptic wrote: post #134
blunte wrote: post #8

This is a good an informative essay. However, there's another element of "user-hostile" that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it in my haste?) -- that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user. It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of t…

> But many of the providers of "content" know they have little to provide, so they drag it out in video form, saving the actual information for the last 10% of the video (if ever!) 0:00 - 00:10 Useless video animation 00:10-2:00 "Hey guys welcome to my channel. Make sure to like and subscribe and let me know how I'm doing in the comments. Also make sure to check out [sponsor] and use coupon code [code] for 10% off" 2…

Trick: Skip straight to halfway. If the meat is being covered, roll back, else forward.

Binary search works well.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#242

Post by dredmorbius »

harshreality wrote: post #165
dictum wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 0:00 - 00:10 Useless video animation I'm happy when it's only useless. It's often useless and loud.

That's because it's an unconditioned stimulus (classical conditioning theory). If you repeatedly watch their videos, and like them, you'll start to associate their intro animation with the content you like, and you'll like the intro animation. Later, you'll even come up with post-rationalizations for why it's not quite so loud or useless.

The TED intro (standard series) bmakes me gag now Ten seconds.

Mind, mobile YT doesn't have keyboard sip, but mpsyt does.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#243

Post by gingerb »

I totally disagree. It is not the web or www that is hostile but many websites and services out there.

I think no one will go back to the old web, although I agree it was an epic experience back then. For me it is totally logical that many people try to find a way to earn money on the internet, and in this economy there is in principle nothing wrong with that IMHO.

No one forces you to use Facebook, Google or any of the great services available. But people seem to forget that in life almost everything comes with a price. For Facebook and Google you pay with your (more or less private) data. So? If you think it's not a fair deal, simply don't use it! But please don't blame the entire web for that.

The web as it is now has soooo much more to offer than the old web that it is hard to even imagine! A few things I use that were impossible in the 90's, from the top of my head:

  listen music on youtube, learn and use any programming language for free, git, open source, read the latest news in online 
  newspapers from remote countries, buy tickets online, airbnb, online banking, broadcast on twitter, social networks, slack, 
  OS updates, World of Warcraft/games, crypto currencies, etc.. etc...
I'm happy to pay with some of my privacy to any of the services above, it's up to me to decide whether the balance is OK.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#244

Post by komali2 »

Chaebixi wrote: post #237
komali2 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, you sound like one of the harder people to track accurately. However, I as well have been "disappointed" by the ability of websites to judge my interests. After reading about cases such as Target, who have "spooky" ability to gauge interest, I was expecting better. So I searched for a very specific motorcycle jacket with very specific features and now my page is inundated with every clothing item that has…

The impression that I got was that Target thing wasn't some spooky self-learning AI product recommender, but rather they had the data to write some special-purpose analytics to detect a specific but common purchasing pattern. Your motorcycle jacket example isn't the kind of thing that would get that kind of special attention.

Really? Because I would expect Amazon to be like "oh fuck, this dude bought a motorcycle! Inundaaaaate!" and start seeing a bunch of ads for Senas, helmets, gloves, etc.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#245

Post by halayli »

> Cedexis: a CND/ad-delivery platform

Cedexis is not an ad-delivery platform. It's a multi-cdn platform that allows you use multiple cdns under the hood and picks optimum cdn based on the user's location.

OP loses credibility when making such false accusations just to make their point.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#246

Post by ThinkingGuy »

vvanders wrote: post #103
pmoriarty wrote: post #25

"For many of us in the early 2000s, the web was magical. You connected a phone line to your computer, let it make a funny noise and suddenly you had access to a seemingly-unending repository of thoughts and ideas from people around the world. "It might not seem like much now, but what that noise represented was the stuff of science fiction at the time: near-instantaneous communication at a planetary scale. It was a b…

Ironically the closest thing I've found to the hey-day of the internet(~'99) for me is Ham Radio. It's hard to explain but it's got the same feel of people who tinker and enjoy technology for the hell of it. With HF you get communication all over the globe. It's also explicitly non-commercial so it's stayed relatively undeveloped. Granted you'll never see the exponential of communication that the internet unleashed d…

I generally agree, but while there's still a strong DIY spirit in the ham radio world, especially in the hardware field, I often find myself disappointed by many hams' willingness to surrender control and freedom to proprietary protocols and software (PACTOR, D-STAR, Winlink, Ham Radio Delux, to name a few) in exchange for convenience.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#247

Post by abritinthebay »

Filligree wrote: post #193
abritinthebay wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who works for a site who produces a lot of video content and is trending more that way I can give you a simple reason why. People consume it more. They stay on the site longer, they tend to watch more videos than read articles, and they share videos more. Now obviously the videos still need to be good content but the reason you’re seeing more video content is not because of some nefarious scheme:…

Well, of course people stay longer in the site. You're forcing us to, since skimming and searching is no longer an option. It's a worse experience, and I avoid that sort of site if at all possible.

Yes, I know you may think that that but that's not based on the numbers I'm afraid.

It can be true for you of course. But if so you're an outlier.

Long story short - we see people actively engage with video content more (ie - they share it, they comment on it, they respond to it more positively, etc etc).

The numbers don't lie, and they're pretty clear.

Article-based/written content isn't going anywhere, but it's not the only delivery stream anymore. It hasn't been for years really but it was contained in YouTube for the most part. But social videos (instagram, twitter, etc) really blew the lid off that and now videos are becoming a whole new and different category of content.

Now obviously sites that just do a 5 minute video full of junk instead of a 3 paragraph article are just that - junk. But that's why I said the video content still needs to be good content. Sites that don't do that deserve to be ignored - and not all sites are good at producing video content.

I work at Bleacher Report and we very specifically craft our videos to be more than what you're describing (they respect the medium and don't replace articles at all). But we're still producing more and more videos because they are extremely popular.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#248

Post by vog »

tomjen3 wrote: post #233
kfriede wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often feel this way about podcasts. Many great podcasts have a 0:30 intro, 1:30 of ads then 08:00 of random babble before getting into 5:00 of the meat of the podcast. The most recent one I can think of is 99% Invisible, though they're not even close to the only ones that do it.

There are podcasts like that, but I admit I am strange because all my favourite podcasts are multiple hours long, getting really deep into the content. Jocos podcasts, which doesn't really have ads other than for his own products, fx are often more than 3 hours, Dan Carlins Hardcore History is typically that long per episode, but often they are also part of a series, like his 5 episodes on the first world war (probab…

This. Exactly this. I don't get why anyone would listen to a podcast with ads and/or bad information density.

I mean, the whole point (and value) of podcasts is to remove the private radio station crap, not to replicate it.

BTW, the German podcast scene is a quite positive example of the directions podcasts can go.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#249

Post by k__ »

blunte wrote: post #8

This is a good an informative essay. However, there's another element of "user-hostile" that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it in my haste?) -- that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user. It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of t…

Same problem with messaging these days.

People increasingly do voice messages.

1. Because messages are faster spoken than written

2. Your "listeners" can't interrupt you, like on a phone call

3. Your messages aren't searchable as easily as text-messages

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#250

Post by eggpy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #32
blunte wrote: post #8

This is a good an informative essay. However, there's another element of "user-hostile" that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it in my haste?) -- that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user. It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of t…

> It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). And what if some of us want the freedom to watch? Maybe I'm illiterate? Just like you, I could say that putting something in writing instead of a video is 'hostile' if it doesn't meet my preferences. Talking about 'hostile' is hysterical.

But that's precisely the point. Just like HTML should be written with accessibility in mind, content ought to be provided with accessibility in mind. Obviously if you are going to a video-focussed site a la youtube you expect to watch videos. But what if I want to skim the news and happen to trust a particular organization? It would be ideal to have this information in a number of formate so I can consume their information in a manner best-suited for me. No one is saying "banish all video!", they are simply saying certain areas of information are better presented in text form for many people and it would be nice to easily consume info in that way.
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