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Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

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Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#141

Post by bambax »

jccalhoun wrote: post #71

I use ublock origin and privacy badger not because I am worried about privacy but because the internet is basically unusable without it. Because of this, I don't see many ads. But I have been an amazon customer since 1999 (according to what they say on their website when I'm logged in.) Looking at what they recommend for me, this personalization stuff is crap. In music, Amazon recommends bands I never listen to like…

It's really amazing how bad those personnalisation engines are; AI seems pretty stupid for now.

But as I was making the exact same point a few days ago here on HN, someone responded to say that maybe it was on purpose, that if recommendations were too good they would creep us out.

Don't know what to think of it but I found the objection interesting...

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#142

Post by amelius »

pmoriarty wrote: post #25

"For many of us in the early 2000s, the web was magical. You connected a phone line to your computer, let it make a funny noise and suddenly you had access to a seemingly-unending repository of thoughts and ideas from people around the world. "It might not seem like much now, but what that noise represented was the stuff of science fiction at the time: near-instantaneous communication at a planetary scale. It was a b…

That web still exists more or less.

If you want to use the web in that way, just remove YouTube, Facebook, etc. from your DNS.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#143

Post by dictum »

Thriptic wrote: post #134
blunte wrote: post #8

This is a good an informative essay. However, there's another element of "user-hostile" that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it in my haste?) -- that is the websites trying to control exactly how the content is consumed by the user. It seems increasingly that web content is being delivered in video form. That itself is hostile to some people. Some of us want the freedom to read (or scan quickly). But many of t…

> But many of the providers of "content" know they have little to provide, so they drag it out in video form, saving the actual information for the last 10% of the video (if ever!) 0:00 - 00:10 Useless video animation 00:10-2:00 "Hey guys welcome to my channel. Make sure to like and subscribe and let me know how I'm doing in the comments. Also make sure to check out [sponsor] and use coupon code [code] for 10% off" 2…

> 0:00 - 00:10 Useless video animation

I'm happy when it's only useless. It's often useless and loud.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#144

Post by titzer »

FTA:

"...we have faster connections, better browser standards, tighter security and new media formats. But it is also different in the values it espouses. Today, we are so far from that initial vision of linking documents to share knowledge that it's hard to simply browse the web for information without constantly being asked to buy something, like something, follow someone, share the page on Facebook or sign up to some newsletter. All the while being tracked and profiled."

The author is absolutely right that the _values_ of the web have changed. IMO this is due to the much more vast penetration of the web and the bubbles which have been birthed as a result of attracting very aggressive profit-driven actors. Rebasing the web's economic model on advertising has fundamentally changed the conception of users, and the expectation of enormous profits has steamrolled the egalitarian principles of early web citizens.

I kind of hope that the web will reboot itself in dark corners, away from the mega actors, away from the tracking and surveillance, and the torrent of the current web can keep on going for the masses.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#145

Post by yellowapple »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #140
DeusExMachina wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If video content would be so "hostile", it would have failed on its own already. People would flock to other places where they can read instead. I don't buy this idea where everything is always imposed on us by evil corporations. More and more websites using video to me seems more like a proof that people prefer videos over written content. That's why videos usually autoplay, also on YouTube and Facebook: if a person…

It's easier to make money from videos than from text, and that's why websites would prefer that. There's not much else to it.

It's also harder to block the ads if they're woven into the video itself (in the form of endorsements / product placement, or in the form of commercial breaks in traditional TV broadcasts). Same with audio. Text-based media can emulate that somewhat, but (IMO) with nowhere near the same effectiveness.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#146

Post by [deleted] »

psyc wrote: post #57
wvenable wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is the worst for providing content in video only form (Channel 9). There have been tons of potentially interesting content posted to HN from Microsoft but I'm not going to sit through an hour long video at work. And they almost never provide any alternative text content (an article) for what's in the video.

Unity is terrible too. The text documentation is terse and barely complete. All the details and workflow information is in video form.

[deleted]

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#147

Post by greenscale »

titzer wrote: post #144

FTA: "...we have faster connections, better browser standards, tighter security and new media formats. But it is also different in the values it espouses. Today, we are so far from that initial vision of linking documents to share knowledge that it's hard to simply browse the web for information without constantly being asked to buy something, like something, follow someone, share the page on Facebook or sign up to s…

I think you're right, but one issue is keeping the problems of the "web of the masses" from spreading to our secluded dark corners once they pick up traction.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#148

Post by superb_herb »

delecti wrote: post #118
nxsynonym wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the normal Facebook detractors, this is big part of why I deactivated my account. 95% of content on facebook is now in video format. Aside from the reasons you mentioned, it's also a huge drain on battery and slows the responsiveness of the site down considerably. If I want to see videos, I'll go to youtube or vimeo. Don't force them on me when I'm trying to find quick info.

I cannot remember the last time I saw a video in my facebook feed (in the feed, not directly linked). Maybe your facebook friends were just particularly annoying.

I've literally never seen a video in my feed. Granted, I have about 100 friends, who are my actual close(-ish) friends.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#149

Post by komali2 »

jccalhoun wrote: post #71

I use ublock origin and privacy badger not because I am worried about privacy but because the internet is basically unusable without it. Because of this, I don't see many ads. But I have been an amazon customer since 1999 (according to what they say on their website when I'm logged in.) Looking at what they recommend for me, this personalization stuff is crap. In music, Amazon recommends bands I never listen to like…

To be fair, you sound like one of the harder people to track accurately.

However, I as well have been "disappointed" by the ability of websites to judge my interests. After reading about cases such as Target, who have "spooky" ability to gauge interest, I was expecting better.

So I searched for a very specific motorcycle jacket with very specific features and now my page is inundated with every clothing item that has the tag "motorcycle_jacket?" That's.... it? The same result I'd get for hitting google with "site:amazon.com 'motorcycle jacket'" ?

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#150

Post by joepie91_ »

QAPereo wrote: post #70
_jal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on this. Honestly at this point, if the information is only contained within a video, I skip it and move on[1]. (I usually leave video in the browser crippled, only turning it on when I actually want to watch something.) [1] The trend of support docs for enterprise software going video is horrible, stupid, and a negative mark when I'm evaluating products. If someone has to spend hours of eyebleed rewindi…

I'm with you on this. Honestly at this point, if the information is only contained within a video, I skip it and move on Same, and I've noticed this trend for quite a while now. Text can always be trivially copied, even by a granny, and inserted into an email or forum. A video? You can have a DRM arms race with video. Videos also prevent skimming, and demand consumption of all content.

> Videos also prevent skimming, and demand consumption of all content.

To an advertiser, that's a feature. This is half of the problem.

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