Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

independent.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 130 posts

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#111

Post by pc86 »

Raphmedia wrote: post #66
irl_zebra wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, smokers randomly leave for smoke breaks several times daily. Non smokers don’t do that. So smokers get more breaks, even if non smokers could step outside for 15 minutes at a time theoretically. Also it’s socially acceptable for smokers to do this, less so for non smokers to randomly leave for breaks. Can you explain what you’re not getting?

Perhaps some difference between countries or companies. Everywhere I have worked the breaks were defined in the work contract. Right under my salaries, benefits, etc. I have a clause that more or less says: "You are entitled to take a 30-minute break after working five consecutive hours. This 30 minutes can be split through the day but not used to leave early or lengthen your lunch break." Anyone taking more breaks t…

Why can't you use the time to leave early? Or to take a longer lunch? Or come in for a bit then leave for 30 minutes? This type of clock watching nonsense is completely unacceptable for even hourly unskilled employment, let alone an office job or highly skilled fields.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#112

Post by r00fus »

enobrev wrote: post #68
athenot wrote: post #42

As a non-smoker I used to go on the smoke breaks with coworkers. Not as an excuse for time away from work but rather to get up and brainstorm things. That turned out to be more productive than stay seated and let my wheels spin in my brain. Nowadays we use the coffee/watercooler break but it's not quite the same as getting out of the building, feeling the outside air against the skin (hot or cold) and getting a chang…

I quit smoking 4 years ago. I still go on smoke breaks, without the cigarette. If I'm at a bar / restaurant, I'll hang around with the smokers - who never care if I'm actually smoking. At home, I'll go sit outside for a few minutes. It's great for the creative processes as well as for maintaining focus throughout the day. It also helps settle things a bit when socializing gets overwhelming.

You must have strong willpower to be able to stand with other smokers after quitting (assuming you don't borrow one).

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#113

Post by Raphmedia »

paulriddle wrote: post #80
Raphmedia wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps some difference between countries or companies. Everywhere I have worked the breaks were defined in the work contract. Right under my salaries, benefits, etc. I have a clause that more or less says: "You are entitled to take a 30-minute break after working five consecutive hours. This 30 minutes can be split through the day but not used to leave early or lengthen your lunch break." Anyone taking more breaks t…

It's insanity. If I found myself working for such an employer I would immediately label them as my enemy and nope the hell out of there as soon as possible. I wouldn't talk with my friends or family, I wouldn't watch youtube or TV series, I wouldn't even walk - I would always run, as a character in a videogame, and I would chew my food very fast looking nowhere but the dish I'm eating. All of that just to squeeze out…

(Quebec, Canada) I've never seen it done any other ways.

As a developer, I get to work for some pretty relax workplaces. At those places, the breaks are not monitored but you are expected to respect the limit. 30 minutes of paid lunch (and 30 more minutes of unpaid lunch if you choose to) and 15 minutes of paid break in the morning along with 15 minutes of paid break in the evening. Note that by law, employers here are only required to give you an unpaid 30-minute break for every 5 hours of work. What I am describing here is living the good life as a developer.

Even then, most developer at big agencies (100+ programmers) here work by the clock & timesheet and have to log their worktime to the minute and are unpaid the missed time.

Perhaps I should put emphasis on the fact that those are paid breaks I'm talking about.

I guess that you could "disappear" every hours but the culture would make it so that your coworkers would start to ask questions, your supervisor start to worry, you yearly evaluation suffer and your bonus or salary increase might be lower than the previous year.

I am lucky enough to work somewhere pretty relax with a "startup" culture. This allows me to start at the time I want and leave at the time I want. That being said, I'm expected to do 7.5 hours every day, to be present between 9h and 15h and to respect the allowed time when taking breaks.

> I wouldn't talk with my friends or family, I wouldn't watch youtube or TV series, I wouldn't even walk

Are you doing those things on the clock? I'm confused.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#114

Post by Retric »

Kevguy wrote: post #99
Retric wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3$* 5days * 48weeks * 40years (65 years - 25 years) = 28,800$ before investments. However, caffeine is a larger problem. It's very additive with strong withdrawal symptoms, but giving it up for 6 months has significant mental health benefits. Unless you enjoy black coffee it often adds up to several hundred calories per day.

Aside from sleepiness for a few days and a (lack of) caffeine headache for a day, what are the strong withdrawal symptoms? I honestly don't think there are any and have never figured out why some people are so against coffee. If I'm wrong, please tell me what I am missing. Thanks. I agree the sugar and milk/creamer add a fair amount of calories to your diet.

In the short term the symptoms are headache, fatigue, anxiety, irritability, depressed mood, and difficulty concentrating. That generally lasts less than a week, but can be very difficult for heavy users.

However, because of how it integrates with your sleep patterns it can take 6 months for normal alertness levels to show up assuming total avoidance. Healthy individuals with reasonable sleep cycles should feel alert for the vast majority of the day without any form of stimulants.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#115

Post by leroy_masochist »

0xFFFE wrote: post #20
leroy_masochist wrote: post #15

Given the amount of walking needed to get outside the building and the sedentary nature of their job, it's worth considering whether, on balance, the smokers at this company are actually healthier and more productive than they would be if they kicked the habit.

> the smokers at this company are actually healthier and more productive More productive perhaps, but healthier? I don't think so. EDIT: Typo.

They are engaging in consistent (roughly hourly) physical activity (significant amount of walking) in order to go smoke, while the non-smokers are not.

The question here is not whether smoking is good for you, which it obviously isn't. It's whether, in this case, the benefit of being forced by addiction to get up and engage in light physical activity once per hour outweighs the carcinogenic effects of the tobacco consumed during smoke breaks.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#116

Post by nnfy »

loco5niner wrote: post #107
dionidium wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that there are so many other risks present in cities -- e.g. it's probably more dangerous just to be walking there in the first place than it is to pass a smoker -- it's that, like, how potent do you imagine cigarette smoke to be that just passing near some every once in a while is going to significantly harm you? I can't even begin to imagine what kind of model of the world you'd have to be working wit…

I guess I just equate smoking with poison. I think it's equally illogical to be purposefully ingesting poison on a daily basis. For myself, I prefer zero purposeful ingestion, even if I am ignorant of the effects.

We [myself former] are not simply poisoning ourselves for fun. There are a multitude of benefits afforded by nicotine in the short term, including improved focus, reduced anxiety, and of course the habit of a smoke break is great for clearing the mind.

Your problem is that you, as you say, equate smoking with poison. That's hyperbolic. One could say the same about sugar, but it would sound just as ridiculous.

It's almost as if smokers are dehumanized these days, and non smokers deliberately ignore reasons to smoke.

There has also been ample evidence of neuroprotective effects of nicotine[0][1] for decades now. I dont mean to suggest that you go out and start a pack a day habit, but my point is that walking past a smoker won't give you cancer.

[0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19714494

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772120

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#117

Post by enobrev »

r00fus wrote: post #112
enobrev wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit smoking 4 years ago. I still go on smoke breaks, without the cigarette. If I'm at a bar / restaurant, I'll hang around with the smokers - who never care if I'm actually smoking. At home, I'll go sit outside for a few minutes. It's great for the creative processes as well as for maintaining focus throughout the day. It also helps settle things a bit when socializing gets overwhelming.

You must have strong willpower to be able to stand with other smokers after quitting (assuming you don't borrow one).

After 22 years as a smoker, I was at a point where I didn't really like smoking anymore. I knew I was addicted, and I smoked plenty, but I didn't enjoy it. So, after getting a stomach bug during a visit to Mexico where smoking was making me ill, I took the opportunity to order two vape pens for my wife and I, and never turned back. I think it helped that she did it with me.

I'm very fortunate in that I don't crave cigarettes any more. My wife will still bum one on occasion if we're drinking or camping. I might have a cigar once every month or so, but I have no interest in more than that, and cigarettes completely gross me out now.

As for this thread, I don't always vape when I hang out with the smokers. Or even when I do, vaping just takes a quick puff. I'll generally stick around while the smokers finish their cigarettes.

In regards to willpower, I'm still addicted to nicotine. I don't mind being addicted to it. I'm glad I found a way to do it that doesn't involve literally sucking on burning paper and plants. That said, I've been halving the nicotine content of my juice annually. I should be completely off in two years.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#118

Post by loco5niner »

nnfy wrote: post #116
loco5niner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I just equate smoking with poison. I think it's equally illogical to be purposefully ingesting poison on a daily basis. For myself, I prefer zero purposeful ingestion, even if I am ignorant of the effects.

We [myself former] are not simply poisoning ourselves for fun. There are a multitude of benefits afforded by nicotine in the short term, including improved focus, reduced anxiety, and of course the habit of a smoke break is great for clearing the mind. Your problem is that you, as you say, equate smoking with poison. That's hyperbolic. One could say the same about sugar, but it would sound just as ridiculous. It's al…

Those short-term benefits are far outweighed by the long-term negative effects, and there are far better ways to enjoy those short-term benefits (there may be a few specific scenarios I am ignorant of, diseases, etc, but I'm sure those are few and far between)

The real problem is people selling short-term benefits over long-term consequences.

Re: Company gives non-smokers six days holiday to compensate for cigarette breaks

#119

Post by mFixman »

dionidium wrote: post #60
amai wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know about the dangers of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking ?

It's indicative of the hysteria around secondhand smoke that someone on HN could seriously think that occasionally standing near people smoking outside is a serious health risk.

It's not only about health risks. Standing near smokers is disgusting and soils your clothes with their smell, specially when they are smoking.
Post reply on HN