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Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

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Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#321

Post by mbrock »

nikolay wrote: post #274
joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

Yeah, imagine using Netscape in 2017 and not Chrome - that's pretty much how I look at Bitcoin. The anarchists say how important Bitcoin is, yet, all they care is its fiat exchange ratio as all they care about - cash out their stash in fiat just right before it starts dropping in a get-rich-quick pipe dream.

Are you talking about any specific "anarchists"?

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#322

Post by gburt »

dleslie wrote: post #257
swalsh wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep thinking about investing again, but I have a rule about investments. If I can't come up with a reasonable story to explain why supply and demand are the way they are. I don't invest. I can explain the supply side part... but the demand here baffles me. The best explanation I can come up with is "this thing is rising in price like a rocket, maybe I'll make some money" That's not a good reason to invest in my op…

At this point, the demand for bitcoin is driven primarily by its value; anyone acquiring it with the intent to use it in transactions is being foolish. Almost certainly they would be better off holding the BTC and processing the transaction with another currency.

Without making any judgement on whether it is a useful transactional "currency," I hear this sort of thing a lot, but I don't understand it. Surely either BTC is a good transaction mechanism or it isn't and the rampant increase in value is largely irrelevant.

You could convert USD to BTC and buy something while maintaining exactly the same held balance, no?

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#323

Post by john_alan »

DennisP wrote: post #304
john_alan wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) XMR Tx set to low priority will usually ship in next block (within 2 mins) with 5 ring size at fee of 30cent. Not sure what you were doing. B) ZKSnarks will never deprecate XMR, they bring the caveats of trusted being required, inability to audit coin supply and inherently DO NOT provide fungibility. It’s no wonder xmr price is in the doldrums. Even the smart guys on HN are misinformed about it.

Fwiw, ring signatures are also getting implemented on Ethereum. (But I do think Monero makes a good case for their "mandatory privacy" stance.)

Yup. Eth is good, ring on eth will not provide transactional privacy though.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#324

Post by Infernal »

IncRnd wrote: post #291
cloudhead wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What currency doesn't operate this way?

Some currencies are pegged to other currencies or values.

So you have to have trust that others will have continued trust in the currencies or values that your example currency is pegged to.

Ultimately it seems that any material you treat as a store of value, rather than as a commodity or material that is valuable to you for its own properties, includes this trust that others will value it. If others do not value it, it is not a store of value, its usefulness to you is reduced to its own intrinsic properties rather than the value others place on it.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#325

Post by googletazer »

tfha wrote: post #187
randallsquared wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has no stake in any of these, it seems to me that Ethereum has a big PR problem no matter how technically superior it is: it's inextricably tied to the story about the DAO, where those who played the game by the rules had their Ethereum redistributed by the developers because said developers didn't like the outcome. (I know that this isn't a neutral phrasing, but it's the perception I'm talking about..…

People who believe that ethereum is technically superior have not studied cryptocurrencies in depth. Ethereum made a lot of reckless design decisions, trading long term stability and security for advantages that only exist over bitcoin in the short term. Their short block time is a sloppy choice. Their focus on gpu mining is a boneheaded mistake. Their scripting system is embarrassing. Proof of stake is nonviable. Mu…

For the lack of a better word, you seem salty. You make a lot of allegations that arent supported by any evidence. Everybody can design a perfect system, few can make the tradeoffs to build something that works.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#326

Post by tinco »

rhino369 wrote: post #270
tinco wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold, art and wine all have a utility value that's way below their "store of value" value. Bitcoin is just a more convenient store with an equally insignificant utility value. Whether Bitcoin can persist while offering so little value I don't know, just saying these valuations are not unheard of in the asset world. Just look at what people pay for mediocre Van Gogh paintings I wouldn't hang in my toilet..

It's hard to objectively value things. But bitcoin is a clear outlier because it's only value is that people think it's going to go up in value. It's more like beanie babies than a Van Gogh. Wine price is generally determined by the genuine demand for the wine. Art less so, but still people actually want to hang the art somewhere. Some people speculate with art, but it's not a huge percentage of the value. Gold is th…

Wine prices, gold price and art prices are all driven by genuine demand for them. Why would something have a price if there wasn't genuine demand for them?

What do you base the idea on that only some of the price of art is based on speculation?

I don't think Bitcoin is an outlier at all. And if you don't believe Bitcoin is an outlier, as many people are starting to do now, you can understand why its price is going up so fast.

Gold prices don't do anything because they're "supposed" to do anything. Gold moons whenever the market decides it wants gold to moon, just like Bitcoin, just like wine and just like art.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#327

Post by sbenitoj »

cgb223 wrote: post #312
nikcub wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin transaction this morning. The average and median transaction fees between the two networks have been pretty close for a while I like Monero but it has some way to go - it needs a light client, multisig completed, and hasn't really had to confront any scaling iss…

> Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin transaction this morning. The average and median transaction fees between the two networks have been pretty close for a while I might be wrong, but isnt the fee based on how much of the currency that you're sending? Like, how much were you sending for each currency? If the amounts werent similar, the fees might not be accurat…

The fees have nothing to do with how much money you’re sending, you could send $1 or $1,000,000 and it would cost the same thing. The fees are based on how large the transaction is (in terms of kilobytes, that is, not amount). Some transactions have more inputs/outputs than others (and thus take up more space in terms of kilobytes than others) but that’s not a function of the amount being sent.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#328

Post by phamilton »

baddox wrote: post #318
slg wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bitcoin's value is given by the trust people put in it. Just like with the fiat currencies as a matter of fact Except fiat currencies also have that fiat behind them that gives them value. If you want to do business with the US government, you do it in USD. If you are one of the millions employed by the US government, you are paid in USD. If you manipulate USD, you have to answer to the US government. Those things a…

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to attribute much of USD’s value to business deals with the US government. That must be a tiny effect. I’d say most of the value comes from the fact that US workers have to pay taxes in USD even if they earned income in some other currency or asset.

> pay taxes in USD

basically, citizens dealing with the US government. I think it's the same category.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#329

Post by danbruc »

decentralised wrote: post #261
danbruc wrote: post #110

Is any reasonable good and current analysis available showing what Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies are actually used for and in what volume?

The volumes you can check using any of the block explorers freely available as for what they are used for, it's a transactional system so all records are transactions. The myth that cryptos are used for illegal and criminal activity is dying down in Europe with Europol and BoE both releasing studies showing criminals prefer to use fiat rather than cryptocurrencies.

Just randomly clicking through blocks won't give you that much insights. You'll need at least a rather comprehensive list of address together with information what they are used for. Some of the block explorers provide such information to some extend, but I don't think any of them is comprehensive enough to be able to answer something like how many coins were spend in April 2017 to pay for food delivery services.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#330

Post by sheeshkebab »

sodafountan wrote: post #198
jdhn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course! More seriously, I'm moving coins to Coinbase very soon as they're going to allow users to sell the new B2X coins the day after the split. I expect to make a 4 figure profit, but I'm not sure whether it'll be low 4 figures or high 4 figures.

You do realize that if you have a market entirely filled with sellers and no buyers the price is zero right? Who do you predict is going to be buying 2X

It would be good for btc to slow down for a while too. Otherwise the thing looks like a totally bogus Ponzi scheme.
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