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Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

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Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#191

I don't know much about bitcoin i'll admit. And I was surpised the other day to read some comments where the poster was saying that the transaction price is somewhere in between 5$ - 20$. Isn't that like... a LOT? I thought the idea of Bitcoins was how easy it would be to make transactions but with a price like that I can image most smaller transactions are discouraged. Also, after the initial hype I haven't really s…

The fee and scaling issues are being addressed in a second-layer solution: http://lightning.network/

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#192

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

> (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases I use Bitcoin from time to time to order food and buy other stuff online (sometimes through gift cards bought with Bitcoin). It's tough enough to find sites that accept Bitcoin, but I don't think I've ever seen one that accepted Monero or Ethereum. Maybe Litecoin a few years back. I admit that I haven't searched, but I would have expected a correlation with…

I mostly use Bitcoin to buy things that I either don't want on my credit card bill or from merchants that I don't feel comfortable trusting with my credit card information.

For me, that's generally things like gift cards, VPN and VPS rentals, etc. It also seems to be gaining significant traction on porn sites, both for memberships and for per-artifact transactions. I expect that it will continue to be useful in the case of memberships in particular because you can't set up a recurring payment in Bitcoin, which protects the purchaser from being unexpectedly charged later.

> I don't think I've ever seen one that accepted Monero or Ethereum. Maybe Litecoin a few years back.

I agree here. Although I've seen a few, they're all very much amateur sites run by other crypto nerds, so they don't really count.

That said, I don't think that matters so much anymore. Sites like shapeshift.io have made it nearly effortless to move between cryptos, so if you want to hold and transact with friends using Monero and buy things using Bitcoin, there's much less friction than there was a year ago.

> So if it's not buying stuff, what use cases do you have in mind?

In my view, here are the main use cases for Bitcoin:

1) As a currency/"digital cash". There are definitely use cases (see above) where Bitcoin is a superior currency. There are also instances where people cannot transact using the "normal" financial system, and Bitcoin gives them the ability to purchase things online. Examples include minors and citizens of states without great access to the world financial network.

2) To evade state control. I've personally got a friend in Venezuela that I occasionally send some Bitcoin to help with family matters. Their currency is literally worth less than WoW gold at this point, and the state controls the dollar:bolivare exchange rate. I'm able to send him $50 in Bitcoin and he's able to exchange it for food and medicine, or for bolivares at a rate many times better than the "official" rate. Likewise, it seems that the Chinese are using Bitcoin (and other cryptos) to evade capital controls and get their assets out of China.

3) As an investment. The long-term deflationary nature of Bitcoin means that it's an excellent place to keep "disposable savings" - so long as you believe in the future of the currency.

4) Complex but bulletproof financial planning. My cold wallet is set up using m-of-n. There are several private keys out there to it: I have one at home in my safe, one in my head, one on a Yubikey on my keychain, my wife has one, my attorney has one, my parents have one. Three of those six keys are required to sign a transaction for it to be valid. That means that no one individual, other than me, with access to those funds can spend them on their own. If I die unexpectedly, my wife can spend them. If we both die unexpectedly, my parents can spend them. If somehow I, my wife, and my parents all die unexpectedly in very short order, the funds can still be recovered by the executor of my estate. This sort of arrangement cannot be made in the traditional financial system without exposure to litigation risk.

Another place it would make sense is in a corporation with strong spending controls. A wallet where the CEO, CFO, and CSO all must sign off on a transaction is totally possible. That wallet is then 100% guaranteed not to ever be spendable by anyone outside of official channels. There is also a public record of who signed each transaction and when for audit purposes

5) Asset verification. Do you know, for sure, how much gold is in Fort Knox? Of course not, we must simply trust that the US government isn't lying when they state the size of their reserves. With Bitcoin, if an organization has 20,000 BTC sitting in a wallet, they can sign a message to that effect with the private key that corresponds to it. That signature can then be verified by anyone, and we can be confident that they do in fact control the coins at that address.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#193
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has no stake in any of these, it seems to me that Ethereum has a big PR problem no matter how technically superior it is: it's inextricably tied to the story about the DAO, where those who played the game by the rules had their Ethereum redistributed by the developers because said developers didn't like the outcome. (I know that this isn't a neutral phrasing, but it's the perception I'm talking about..…

People who believe that ethereum is technically superior have not studied cryptocurrencies in depth. Ethereum made a lot of reckless design decisions, trading long term stability and security for advantages that only exist over bitcoin in the short term. Their short block time is a sloppy choice. Their focus on gpu mining is a boneheaded mistake. Their scripting system is embarrassing. Proof of stake is nonviable. Mu…

> Their focus on gpu mining is a boneheaded mistake

Better to leave random warehouses in China to control the entire pool? How does supporting asics matter in the least other than making it less accessible?

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#194
post #21

I think the behaviour of Bitcoin price (not the technology) reflects some social phenomenon rather than the real economy. And it is precisely why it is interesting.

It's currently hard to say how much of price increase has been driven by general public converting their USD/EUR/JPY into BTC versus current asset owners just trading with one another (or between their wallets) at ever-increasing prices.

The Twitter account @bitfinexed suggests the price increase is driven entirely by wash trading, and Bitcoin exchanges or brokers are not exactly the paragon of transparency as far as inflows/outflows.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#196
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shopworn but good tech doesn't always win. Bitcoin has a big(ish) network of users and a proven codebase. The decentralized nature of blockchains means that they're hard for individual corporations to control and profit from. That hampers adoption of new closed cryptocurrencies (not Monero or Ethereum though) but can serve as a powerful public utility.

This is an interesting line of thought: bitcoin has no intrinsic value--its price represents a supply and demand equillibrium for a (1) money, that is (2) pseudonymous, and (3) not a government currency. If other CCs can offer 2, 3 equally well, the price premium must be due to something different about 1--how well it performs the functions of money. Is it a better Store of Value? How much better of a Medium of Excha…

Personally I think that the value of (1) Money is extremely dependent on proven track record and the network size. Since the value of (2) and (3) are dependent on (1) I think this has outsize importance. Though as programmers I think we tend to underestimate this value.

Not to say Bitcoin isn't in a speculative bubble, who knows?

Aside: I don't know if it's fair to call bitcoin pseudonymous. Tumblers mean that one can effectively obscure their transactions if that's their goal, pseudo-pseudonymous if you will.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases I use Bitcoin from time to time to order food and buy other stuff online (sometimes through gift cards bought with Bitcoin). It's tough enough to find sites that accept Bitcoin, but I don't think I've ever seen one that accepted Monero or Ethereum. Maybe Litecoin a few years back. I admit that I haven't searched, but I would have expected a correlation with…

Ideally Monero would replace Bitcoin when buying things. Monero is more like cash than Bitcoin is. Unlike Bitcoin, paying with Monero doesn't immediately give away your balance and transaction history. Monero would also be better suited because it has lower fees that will get even lower as the dynamic block size increases. And because of the dynamic blocksize, you won't have to wait forever to confirm that you sent p…

Monero's scalability is even harder to solve than Bitcoin's I think. Perfect coin should be private and scalable. There isn't one yet, expect maybe Byteball's blackbytes.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#198
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double the coins, double the profits! Right?

Of course! More seriously, I'm moving coins to Coinbase very soon as they're going to allow users to sell the new B2X coins the day after the split. I expect to make a 4 figure profit, but I'm not sure whether it'll be low 4 figures or high 4 figures.

You do realize that if you have a market entirely filled with sellers and no buyers the price is zero right? Who do you predict is going to be buying 2X

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#199
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're using both, as a mean to scale for billion or more number of accounts.

Using the blockchain, a technology that's shown to have trouble handling single digit numbers of transactions per second, to scale for billion of accounts? That's interesting. I wish people in this entire thread weren't allergic to providing citations and references though.

I can't cite, it was a CS guy working for a large bank explaining us why they were paying him.

Calm down

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#200
post #21

I think the behaviour of Bitcoin price (not the technology) reflects some social phenomenon rather than the real economy. And it is precisely why it is interesting.

It is a textbook example of a speculative bubble. Shiller's book Irrational Exuberance is a great exposition on the topic. Almost every criterion he cites is satisfied: dramatic price increases, "new era" stories, mass media coverage, and stories of overnight millionaires. The only thing missing is lowered lending standards.

This doesn't mean the price will go down though, it is notoriously difficult to predict when a bubble will pop and hazardous to bet against financially.

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