Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

lkml.iu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 408 posts

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#271

Post by gus_massa »

dingo_bat wrote: post #77
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when he's effectively CEO, visionary, and end-responsible for the business? He's the Big Boss of Linux, there is nobody above him in the chain of command. You're used to traditional businesses when there is no single end-responsible person, and when there is a public face for the company (like Jobs, Gates, etc), there is still a group of faceless shareholders above them that can choose to remove them. Not in thi…

And I'm pretty sure Gates and Jobs were similar in their time.

For example: "My First BillG Review" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#272

Post by alien_at_work »

ForHackernews wrote: post #241
alien_at_work wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what we need to do is stop listening to fragile cry babies. If you ever work for a real company with real deadlines you'll get a lot worse than what he gave. And he only responded this way after 3 weeks of unacceptable behavior. If he blew up out of nowhere after the very first report of a potential problem before it was even confirmed, that would be a different story (though that's something that probably happen…

> If you ever work for a real company with real deadlines you'll get a lot worse than what he gave. I think you must have worked for some horribly unprofessional companies. I've worked places with tight deadlines before, but berating your colleagues or employees with profanity is just ridiculous. I would walk out on the spot if anyone spoke to me the way Linus did in that email.

>I think you must have worked for some horribly unprofessional companies.

I have for sure, but the worst of those companies was better than fortune 5 (if I said exactly, you'd know which company), so while primitive they obviously manage to get results that coddling hasn't.

EDIT: And as for walking out, if I were your manager and you broke customer systems and made excuses for 3 weeks about it I wouldn't be yelling at you. I'd be firing you.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#273

Post by proginthebox »

bischofs wrote: post #140

Someone needs to codify this shit for when he leaves. Its surprising that he still needs to scream at people after two decades of kernel work. I don't have a lot of faith that whoever comes after him will be as proud of the kernel as he is given they just inherited most of it. Succession is a weird concept with linux but the fact that it has always been more stable than the other OS' is I think the main reason it is…

We will hopefully have a new kernel written in Rust by someone new.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#274

Post by [deleted] »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #169
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t. He’s effectively using certain emotions to clearly broadcast his point.

Understood. But what happens if everyone in an organisation reacts in the same way? Is it a useful leadership style?

[deleted]

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#275

Post by forapurpose »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #206
rthomas6 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because Linus is effective at communicating what he wants doesn't mean his way is the best way. Why wouldn't it be even better if he alienated contributors less?

Because high quality kernel code is more important than not alienating contributors. If someone prefers softer conduct, they are free to fork the kernel and start their own efforts.

> high quality kernel code is more important than not alienating contributors

That's not the choice; there are other, more effective ways to produce quality code; they are well known and well tested. I would expect that Linux loses more quality code, from contributors who have better things to do than deal with unprofessional behavior, than it gains.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#276

Post by res0nat0r »

vorpalhex wrote: post #229
res0nat0r wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was anyone else we'd be calling them an utter asshole and then citing them as reasons why Silicon Valley has a reputation for . Linus is still a dick and it isn't funny, refreshing or cool.

Nope. This is a valid case to call someone out. Not just for Linus, but for anyone.

Yep. Not by cussing at them or raging like a toddler.

If this was some Joe Schmo at a random company he'd be fired for treating co-workers like that. Since it's Linus it's hero worship.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#277

Post by taeric »

mikeash wrote: post #71
acobster wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor point, but he puts Python in with software that "almost never breaks" on update. Really? Am I missing something? Maybe he just hasn't tried running Python 3 yet...

Python 3 is a similar language with a similar name to Python 2. It shouldn’t be considered an update, nor applied as one.

I get the idea, but this is user hostile. If it shouldn't be seen as an upgrade, it should have had a new name. :( Especially if it is going to be a forced migration someday? (I'm assuming python2 support will eventually stop?)

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#278

Post by forgottenpass »

megaman22 wrote: post #164

Linus is such a breath of fresh air. I'll take an honest, emotional, impossible to misconstrue, ass-chewing over the alternatives. Too often there's an avoidance of straightforward, blunt speech that conveys exactly what is meant. I really have better things to do than try to parse nonspecific beating-around-the-bush and deconstruct word-castles.

There are people who have the mental tools for being in a conversation where someone displays anger and aggression [0], and those who don't. One person's world-endingly stressful and uncomfortable interaction is another's colorful productive disagreement.

The people who don't have those tools control the horizontal, they control the vertical too. If they say your personality is wrong by definition, who are you to question them?

Without getting snarky, that's just the status quo right now. In some number of years they'll treat it like a big discovery that their previous assessment of all social interaction wasn't 100% perfect. Let's just hope that when it comes the pendulum swings our way and I get to stop wearing an emotionally-dishonest husk of a personality to the office.

[0] For the sake of avoiding predictable tangents, I mean aggression that is obviously not going to escalate to physical responses, or even anything more than rejecting patches.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#279

Post by arkh »

res0nat0r wrote: post #215
TallGuyShort wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has previously been unnecessarily insulting, which I don't excuse, but in this case someone caused a problem, and after 3 weeks still does not understand how serious a problem it is. He's addressing it bluntly because that is what is required. He's not being unreasonable.

If it was anyone else we'd be calling them an utter asshole and then citing them as reasons why Silicon Valley has a reputation for . Linus is still a dick and it isn't funny, refreshing or cool.

You are not your code.

And behavior can be changed.

If someone criticized your code, taking it as a personal attack is YOUR problem. If your behavior is criticized, it means you can improve: acting like a fool may not mean you're a fool. It's on you to disprove it.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#280

Post by taeric »

majewsky wrote: post #145
Cshelton wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By sizable fraction, he is referring to Cargo.io, Rust's public package repository. They literally run all tests against every crate published to the package ecosystem. That is amazing.

Makes you wonder why no-one else came up with that idea before. I mean, it is pretty revolutionary, but also really obvious in hindsight.

I'm curious why this is seen as a new idea. The capability to pull it off is somewhat new. In particular, at such a large scale.

But the idea is far from it. Commercial compilers probably had this more than open source ones in the past. Though, oddly, it was probably a weakness in some respects, since it almost certainly slowed feature development/releases.

Post reply on HN