Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#181

Post by psyc » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

lsmarigo wrote: post #129

the engagement on these posts is insane relative to everything else on here. Seems without heavy moderation Hn would be Crypto-News. Everyone is afraid to say what they think. The core concept of BTC is fundamentally flawed and unbelievably naive. The value is rising based on hype and speculation alone, no value is being generated in-fact it's being consumed to 'mine' and transact the coins. Those claiming they're sp…

Considering that 2017 has been an unprecedented, huge year for all things crypto (whether for very good innovation reasons, or for frothy fraudulent ones), Hacker News barely talks about it at all. Conspicuously avoids it, in fact.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#182

Post by xvilka » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 1:58 PM UTC

joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

I think from relatively new currencies NEO [1] looks one of the most interesting, fixed many problems of Bitcoin and Ethereum

[1] https://neo.org/

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#183

Post by thisisit » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #177

Dumb question. If I buy a bitcoin today would it be assumed the associated bitcoin cash coin had already been spent or is there a chance I ended up with both? Or am I completely misunderstanding? When it formed each coin holder got a new coin in the fork?

Today you get only 1 bitcoin. No bitcoin cash or gold or whatever forks that may exist.

Think of this way, there is a ledger - bitcoin which shows I own 1 bitcoin on 1st August 2017. Someone copied the ledger. Now there are two ledgers both with name bitcoin. It is confusing - so one is called bitcoin cash.

Going forward, the transactions for bitcoin is recorded in the bitcoin ledger while for bitcoin cash in that ledger. I can spend both bitcoin and cash as my ownership is reflected in both the ledgers.

But if you buy from me today, your ownership reflection will start now. So only on one of the ledgers.

In November someone will create a new copy - the Segwit 2x. So if you own the bitcoin till then you get 1 bitcoin Segwit 2x too, while retaining the ownership from original bitcoin ledger.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#184

Post by VMG » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC

joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

> Other technically superior cryptocurrencies

> Ethereum

LOL

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#185

Post by drzaiusapelord » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC

joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

>but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation.

and that's why its going to survive. Its a bit like the fine art market. Why are the wealthy buying $20m dollar paintings? Because in 5 years it goes to auction for $25m.

Now whether "survive" means anything more than being the preferred currency of illegal dealings and ransomware is the big question. I suspect bitcoin has found its market niche and will stay here as-is. Fiat currency will be as strong as ever and the social and political aspects of cryptocurrency have pretty much failed outside of these tiny use cases.

I see it a bit like the Commodore 64 from the 80s. It wasn't the best home computer, but it was cheap and passable and lasted far longer than anyone should have rightfully assumed. "Good" tech doesn't always win, say the way the Amiga never took off like the C64 did. Sometimes we get stuck with "bad" tech for a while.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#186

Post by VMG » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:02 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #171

tom_mellior wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases I use Bitcoin from time to time to order food and buy other stuff online (sometimes through gift cards bought with Bitcoin). It's tough enough to find sites that accept Bitcoin, but I don't think I've ever seen one that accepted Monero or Ethereum. Maybe Litecoin a few years back. I admit that I haven't searched, but I would have expected a correlation with…

None of the cryptos that exist today can even function as an effective "buying stuff" currency because they are all deflationary, not just in exchange rates and short term speculation but in how they all mine at fixed / declining rates to finite limits. If its going to be worth more tomorrow, you probably don't want to trade it for something today. The use case for bitcoin is the same use case that makes up 95% of th…

> If its going to be worth more tomorrow, you probably don't want to trade it for something today.

Unless you need it.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#187

Post by tfha » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #162

joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

As someone who has no stake in any of these, it seems to me that Ethereum has a big PR problem no matter how technically superior it is: it's inextricably tied to the story about the DAO, where those who played the game by the rules had their Ethereum redistributed by the developers because said developers didn't like the outcome. (I know that this isn't a neutral phrasing, but it's the perception I'm talking about..…

People who believe that ethereum is technically superior have not studied cryptocurrencies in depth. Ethereum made a lot of reckless design decisions, trading long term stability and security for advantages that only exist over bitcoin in the short term. Their short block time is a sloppy choice. Their focus on gpu mining is a boneheaded mistake. Their scripting system is embarrassing. Proof of stake is nonviable. Multiple clients invites large scale network forks like the spurious dragon update disaster. Their code is garbage and won't scale.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#188

Post by patrickg_zill » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

The purpose of talking about the price, is that it is being used as a proxy mechanism to determine if Bitcoin is "crossing the chasm" from the technology oriented early adopters, to the much wider, non tech, early majority.

Then the bandwagon effect will (presumably) kick in and Bitcoin will become truly entrenched.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#189

Post by psyc » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:05 PM UTC

slindz wrote: post #174

psyc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin Cash is a different, suggestively named currency (it’s not Bitcoin) that was bootstrapped by copying Bitcoin’s blockchain.

Bitcoin Cash was born out of necessity to save Bitcoin from disaster when it was hijacked by corporate interests (funded by AXA/Mastercard). Both sides of the SegWit fork (SegWit1X vs. 2X) ~Nov. 16) are intentionally crippling transaction speeds/costs to move transactions off the blockchain and into the pockets of said corporate interests. The true spirit and potential of Bitcoin lives on through Bitcoin Cash.

That could be entirely true (and I believe there are several alts that are technically superior to BTC), however if a friend asks me for Bitcoin, I am not going to tell him to install a BCH wallet, send him BCH, and tell him not to worry about it because it's Bitcoin in spirit and it's going to be great.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#190

Post by wbl » Thu, Nov 02, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

mrb wrote: post #180

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like a pyramid scheme in that so long as people keep buying in on the hope of a profit you'll keep making more and more. As soon as people say "hang on this is a con" and convert to another currency then this factor of the supposed value of Bitcoin could deflate to zero. It's not formalised like a pyramid or MLM scheme but it has some of the same structure.

" It's like a pyramid scheme in that so long as people keep buying in on the hope of a profit " You just described any investment. FX market, stock market, housing, etc. It doesn't make them "pyramid schemes".

I could buy a bitcoin and hope to sell it later. Or I could buy the S&P 500: a market cap weighted set of pieces of companies that will conduct business and grow by the time I have to sell them, and some will give dividends. Which seems better to you?