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Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

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Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#171

Post by zanny »

tom_mellior wrote: post #107
joefourier wrote: post #31

Notice how almost all news of Bitcoin now are about its price. Bitcoin used to be exciting in both technical and economical aspects, but has now become just a store of value entirely driven by speculation. Other technically superior cryptocurrencies (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases, boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity in the case of Monero. Bitcoin takes more tha…

> (e.g. Monero, Ethereum) have replaced most of its usecases I use Bitcoin from time to time to order food and buy other stuff online (sometimes through gift cards bought with Bitcoin). It's tough enough to find sites that accept Bitcoin, but I don't think I've ever seen one that accepted Monero or Ethereum. Maybe Litecoin a few years back. I admit that I haven't searched, but I would have expected a correlation with…

None of the cryptos that exist today can even function as an effective "buying stuff" currency because they are all deflationary, not just in exchange rates and short term speculation but in how they all mine at fixed / declining rates to finite limits.

If its going to be worth more tomorrow, you probably don't want to trade it for something today.

The use case for bitcoin is the same use case that makes up 95% of the price of gold - its predictably scarce. Thats its value.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#172

Post by ideonexus »

AznHisoka wrote: post #7
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I consider myself pretty tech-savvy, but I'm still completely lost as to whether Bitcoin is basically a pyramid scheme set to crash massively, or something huge that will continue climbing. I probably should've taken the time to mine some back when my friends were doing it and tried convincing me too. Ah well. (Queue heated comments from both sides. Discussing bitcoin is like bringing up religion AND politics at the…

My view is that its egotistic to pretend to know whats going to happen. even the financial experts dont know. So i just put 1% of my net worth into it, set a price alert for $20,000 and try not to check the price (or read any stories on it) If i ever get the alert, great. if not, no big deal.

This is my strategy. It's a very volatile, high-risk investment, but one I'll hate myself for missing out on should it take off. So I've bet what I'm willing to lose on it (And yet here I am. :)

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#173

Post by S410520 »

Imagine a world where you can buy without a merchant, bet without a bookie, get insurance without an underwriter, access finance and loans without a bank, trade without an exchange, purchase commodities without a broker, have law without lawyers, courts and judges, create assets without an issuer, secure escrow without an agent, have internet without an ISP, verify records without a notary, establish reputation and credit without a credit agency, and create identity without a government.

Imagine a Bitcoin world.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#174

Post by slindz »

psyc wrote: post #78
vanderreeah wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my total ignorance of bitcoin but - why can't you sell 1 Bitcoin for $7000?

Bitcoin Cash is a different, suggestively named currency (it’s not Bitcoin) that was bootstrapped by copying Bitcoin’s blockchain.

Bitcoin Cash was born out of necessity to save Bitcoin from disaster when it was hijacked by corporate interests (funded by AXA/Mastercard).

Both sides of the SegWit fork (SegWit1X vs. 2X) ~Nov. 16) are intentionally crippling transaction speeds/costs to move transactions off the blockchain and into the pockets of said corporate interests.

The true spirit and potential of Bitcoin lives on through Bitcoin Cash.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#175

Post by sharemywin »

weddpros wrote: post #25
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I consider myself pretty tech-savvy, but I'm still completely lost as to whether Bitcoin is basically a pyramid scheme set to crash massively, or something huge that will continue climbing. I probably should've taken the time to mine some back when my friends were doing it and tried convincing me too. Ah well. (Queue heated comments from both sides. Discussing bitcoin is like bringing up religion AND politics at the…

There's no pyramid scheme. It's a hyped asset, to say the least, but there's no pyramid. Like a hyped startup, it doesn't do much yet, but it is promising, so people buy it. It may be "worth" much or zero in the end, it all depends on the final outcomes. It's also the easiest/cheapest/most open asset to trade (depending on where you trade). In the long term, Bitcoin can be seen as a safe heaven in case of economic ch…

I wouldn't keep a large portion of your "wealth" in it.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#176

Post by weddpros »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #133
buchanaf wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pyramid scheme involves some form of active (fraudulent) recruitment to help increase the price of the asset. Bitcoin doesn't have this. From what you described above, every single speculative/overinflated asset would be a pyramid scheme. That's not the case.

Have you bought some BTC, I made a killing on it, it's free money, get some now because after the fork you'll be able to bank at least 20% of your initial sum, ... The peons in pyramid schemese usually aren't committing fraud, they don't realise that they're in a scheme, they're not lying, they are really convinced that they found the money tree and if only people buy in it will bear fruit forever. I still think the…

Forks are a corner case. As long as someone is willing to pay for the minority coin, why not sell it: the fact that someone is willing to pay for it makes it valuable.

"The peons in Theranos didn't commit fraud, they didn't realise they were in a scheme, they were not lying, they were really convinced that they found the money tree and if only people buy in it will bear fruit forever".

You can't call every company that has failed a pyramid scheme.

You can't call every company that seeks funds through VC or IPO a pyramid scheme, yet they know that they'll only get rich if others buy in.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#178

Post by zanny »

buchanaf wrote: post #121
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like a pyramid scheme in that so long as people keep buying in on the hope of a profit you'll keep making more and more. As soon as people say "hang on this is a con" and convert to another currency then this factor of the supposed value of Bitcoin could deflate to zero. It's not formalised like a pyramid or MLM scheme but it has some of the same structure.

A pyramid scheme involves some form of active (fraudulent) recruitment to help increase the price of the asset. Bitcoin doesn't have this. From what you described above, every single speculative/overinflated asset would be a pyramid scheme. That's not the case.

It is a bit of a fraud to claim bitcoin can ever replace fiat currencies, though. Its deflationary, has a fixed coin limit, is incredibly centralized, and its tx rate is awful and costs a ton to move any of it around the chain.

The only value in bitcoin is in how much it exchanges for at this point, and that is definitionally a pyramid scheme, because current buy-ins need more adoption to drive the price up so they profit off their investment.

3% of all addresses control 97% of all coins. 0.01% of all addresses control 21% of all coins. And bitcoins mint rate is slowing every four years and almost 80% of all bitcoin that will ever exist already exists.

Its absolutely a pyramid scheme. Early adopters were incentivized with large quantities of limited coins to persuade them to mine and participate when the value was low. Those really early wallets (circa 09-12) amassed over half of all bitcoin ever and are now worth extreme fortunes. Those fortunes are based on demand for BTC, demand for the tiny amounts actually left circulating.

The real question is how much of that old money is actually dead - lost wallets and lost passwords - and how much is just waiting to cash out for absolute fortunes. All it would take is one early wallet carrying thousands of BTC to liquidate to cause a panic.

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#179

Post by psyc »

EliRivers wrote: post #59
weddpros wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you don't want a single person to control everything in your country (dictator), and you don't want a single person to control your currency. Against dictators, we have democracy. Against a centrally controlled currency, there's not much but crypto currencies. They're actually democratic, the majority wins. Also, I don't want to be the one who will handle security for the single server with a Postgres databas…

They're actually democratic, the majority wins. Majority of what? Not the demos, I bet; not so democratic. Majority of bitcoins? Majority of processing power?

Bitcoin resists pithy statements about who has the power. Be skeptical of anyone trying to dumb it down to "it's the miners" or "it's the nodes". It's a complicated system of checks and balances, by design, and the fact that all of this was thought through in depth and then proven in practice is the reason we're having this thread today.

This essay does a decent job of summarizing the checks and balances:

https://medium.com/@twobitidiot/bitcoins-constitutional-cris...

Re: Bitcoin Surges Past $7,000 to Extend Record Rally

#180

Post by mrb »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106
weddpros wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no pyramid scheme. It's a hyped asset, to say the least, but there's no pyramid. Like a hyped startup, it doesn't do much yet, but it is promising, so people buy it. It may be "worth" much or zero in the end, it all depends on the final outcomes. It's also the easiest/cheapest/most open asset to trade (depending on where you trade). In the long term, Bitcoin can be seen as a safe heaven in case of economic ch…

It's like a pyramid scheme in that so long as people keep buying in on the hope of a profit you'll keep making more and more. As soon as people say "hang on this is a con" and convert to another currency then this factor of the supposed value of Bitcoin could deflate to zero. It's not formalised like a pyramid or MLM scheme but it has some of the same structure.

"It's like a pyramid scheme in that so long as people keep buying in on the hope of a profit"

You just described any investment. FX market, stock market, housing, etc. It doesn't make them "pyramid schemes".

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