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Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

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Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…

Um, that article was written by none other than Milo Y, does that make alarm bells go off? Richard Spencer, noted white supremacist, originated the term years before that article was written. Its inconceivable Bannon was unaware of this when he made that statement. But bickering over what the word mean or what Bannon meant is not really the point. Give the Buzzfeed Breitbart leak story a read. In it you'll see Bannon…

> Um, that article was written by none other than Milo Y, does that make alarm bells go off?

I’ve always liked Milo. But even if you don't, the article is still important if you want to understand the history of "alt-right" as it was understood by many people.

> Richard Spencer, noted white supremacist, originated the term years before that article was written

Maybe, but Breitbart brought it into the mainstream for me and many others. I also doubt 99% of Americans knew Richard Spencer’s name until last year.

> Its inconceivable Bannon was unaware of this when he made that statement.

Bannon made that statement a few months after Milo’s article. "Alt-right" didn't have those connotations at the time. I read now that Bannon rejects the "alt-right", presumably because its meaning has changed.

> Give the Buzzfeed Breitbart leak story a read. In it you'll see Bannon encourage Milo to engage with white supremacists but try to dress them up publicly.

It just sounds like journalism. Milo reached out to Devin Saucier (the white supremacist) while researching the article I linked that summarized all the parts of the alt-right movement. Vice did the same thing. Or did you mean something else?

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…

>As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. Rather than quibble over terminology, it's better if you just state your positive political program, and then we can see what you're into.

Sure. Limited government, non-interventionism, merit-based immigration, human rights, freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, protecting the environment, private healthcare, net neutrality, free trade, strong civil society, education left to states, anti-PC, anti-bailouts.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to Peter Thiel, I am not sure being thrown overboard is the right metaphor. He has chosen to ride the tiger, and may have trouble getting off, if he wants to.

That metaphor is deliberate? — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola#Ride_the_Tiger

It wasn't an intentional reference to Evola, if that's what you mean - I was unaware of the association until you pointed it out.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#164
post #76

Suppose Elon is a bad guy. What's to stop him from dragging a big space rock into orbit and holding the planet hostage in X years? Government will build in redundant checks and balances at extra expense. Corporations, not so much.

The hundreds, maybe thousands, of people working under him. The majority of which would need to agree that project "Dr. Evil style giant space rock randsom" was a good idea.

You're the only response that actually tried to make a legitimate argument without resorting to logical fallacies and insults. Thanks.

Still, I have to disagree with your point. Lots of people did bad things on Hitler's orders. Lots more looked the other way. The "thousands of people" argument falls apart when looking at historic examples.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#165
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…

> where's Peter Thiel in all this? The evidence seems to suggest Thiel has gotten in with the "throne and altar" crowd, the Neo-Reactionaries and self-described "Dark Enlightenment". https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-moldbug-variations-pein How that intersects with his techy leanings, I don't really know, it's very possible that he's being thrown overboard as you describe.

I like to think of Thiel as someone who has access to Facebook, rather than a person. Besides - It's not clear how much of a person is left in the face of such a pool of legitimate signals.

The tendency of the signals to reach a resonant frequency is another matter...

Basically, follow Thiel, he wasn't wrong throwing down with Trump ... another way of saying it ... I don't think it was because of what he believes in.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#166
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're in favor of Trump's presidency (which seems likely if you support(?) Bannon), how would you counter the dominant view that he's terrible in all sorts of ways, including racism and misogyny. Is it that he's nowhere near as racist/misogynist as he's made out to be by left-side media? Is it that he's, in hindsight, a bad bet (which I sometimes feel is what Bannon might co…

I do support Trump, despite disagreeing with some policies.

I’ll never forget when Ron Paul was called a racist by the media in 2012, and how he was screwed by the Republicans. It still makes me angry today. I don't trust our government, media, or major parties, and all are bad stewards of our Republic. From that perspective, Trump is doing great. This chaos is good in the same way that a controlled fire from time to time is healthy for a forest ecosystem.

I don’t believe he’s a racist or a mysogynist though and I feel pretty confident I could argue against every example people give. However, the only thing it would convince them of is that I am making excuses for a terrible person. It’s not worth it. I’ll just say I think he’s a generally good person operating in a tough environment, and came to that conclusion by going directly to source material.

As for Bannon, I generally like him but I'm happy he's back running Breitbart instead of in the White House. Too controversal. He gave a good interview on 60 minutes last week that I mostly agreed with. And Breitbart - it can be inflammatory, but I find it a good counterbalance to everything else.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas from one can be used to discredit the other. No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. >This erasure of the middle ground between center-left and extreme right is referred to in conservative cir…

> No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. This both true and irrelevant to my point. Quick history lesson of the term: It was originally coined by white nationalists. Later, when the new right came about, they billed themselves as an alternative to the neocons. Some of them began referring to themselves as alt-right in that sense , as did some…

>Simply false. We have no issue with people of color or immigrants. We simply disagree with poisonous Cultural Marxist policies on such issues becoming law.

"Cultural Marxist" means "Jewish" -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

>This is not a view shared by most of the new right, only certain more authoritariam elements. It certainly isn't any more extreme than the leftist craze for punching "Nazis".

As a matter of fact, mass purges are more extreme than individual crimes.

Goodbye.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. This both true and irrelevant to my point. Quick history lesson of the term: It was originally coined by white nationalists. Later, when the new right came about, they billed themselves as an alternative to the neocons. Some of them began referring to themselves as alt-right in that sense , as did some…

>Simply false. We have no issue with people of color or immigrants. We simply disagree with poisonous Cultural Marxist policies on such issues becoming law. "Cultural Marxist" means "Jewish" -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism >This is not a view shared by most of the new right, only certain more authoritariam elements. It certainly isn't any more extreme than the leftist craze for punching "Nazis". As…

> "Cultural Marxist" means "Jewish" -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

Association fallacy -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

As your page admits, it has another, original meaning. One which is conveniently downplayed. This is another example of "unthinging". Don't complain about the rampant Cultural Marxism, or you're just a dirty antisemite!

> As a matter of fact, mass purges are more extreme than individual crimes.

One large segment of the population singling out another for physical harm based on political ideology is a mass purge.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#169

This new flavor of conservatism is so strange in light of how bound to free market ideals most flavors of conservatism are. In general, I really quite dislike Conservative/Liberal labels as political stances are not two-dimensional, but rather multidimensional. Parties are loose alliances of disparate groups. And somehow there's this rising contingent of neocons, who also happen to dislike SpaceX. Does anyone underst…

These alt-rightists are about 180 degrees away from neoconservatives. Neocons are the most vocal Never Trump conservative contingent.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Simply false. We have no issue with people of color or immigrants. We simply disagree with poisonous Cultural Marxist policies on such issues becoming law. "Cultural Marxist" means "Jewish" -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism >This is not a view shared by most of the new right, only certain more authoritariam elements. It certainly isn't any more extreme than the leftist craze for punching "Nazis". As…

> "Cultural Marxist" means "Jewish" -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism Association fallacy -- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Association_fallacy As your page admits, it has another, original meaning. One which is conveniently downplayed. This is another example of "unthinging". Don't complain about the rampant Cultural Marxism, or you're just a dirty antisemite! > As a matter of fact, mass purges are mo…

For anyone interested, "Cultural Marxism" refers to the application of Marxist critical theory to the social sciences, particularly issues of race, gender, culture, and identity.

Current mainstream leftist memes, with a focus on issues like "white privilege", and the systematic inversion of this supposed privilege, cannot be described as anything but Cultural Marxism.

Somewhat related, and highly recommended, is the article Gramscian Damage by ESR (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=260).

And if anyone like eli_gottlieb wants to smear you as an antisemite for speaking out against Marxism, this is why: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=125

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